Wednesday, March 03, 2010

January Job Losses Triple What Was Thought

GREECE -- is acting as a "scout" for the western world and venturing into the fires of collapse. I can't emphasize how important it is to read this closely and ask, "OK, what would I/we do if we knew this was coming in one form or another, right to where I live?" Notice how the unions are arguing that the government is lying, meaning that there really is a hoard somewhere that someone is actually withholding. That's Old Paradigm thinking and it's very dangerous because the unions will rally their members with promises that cannot possibly be fulfilled. And by the time the union members see that they were lied to, it will be too late to do anything except fight, starve, and die. The die-off. That will be a very unpleasant kind of anarchy. We need to watch Greece closely. And if there are any blog followers out there in Greece, please share with us what you see. Although I suspect that Greece will eventually fall into a Leninist style of drastically reduced, oppressive government, I don't see that for the U.S. -- Oh no, I think the U.S. is headed into an age that will closely resemble the HBO series... Deadwood. (But without the pristine scenery.)

Collapsenet will make much better use of the resources we now have thanks to the movie. We have contacts and volunteers including film makers, journalists and professionals in, I would guess 40 countries; thousands of them. Most of them are in locations on the leading edges of collapse. That's why they joined us on Facebook pages in droves after seeing bootlegged downloads of the film. We have the great core talent setting up Collapsenet here and we have hundreds and perhaps thousands of people out there begging to be eyes and ears for us all. They want help from us. And we really need to know what they are seeing. It's a no-brainer. That would actually look like the human race was evolving to a different state of consciousness.

From Jenna Orkin

Economists: Another Crisis on the Way
Dollar's prognosis is far from rosy
CMBS Delinquencies Hit New Record
Geithner's Illegal Money-Laundering Scheme Exposed; Harry Markopolos Says “Don’t Trust Your Government”
Governor Christie: "Time to Hold Hands and Jump Off the Cliff" - Chris Christie For President? 70% Of The Elderly Aren't Retiring Because They Can't Afford To Anymore
A 75-year-old woman of my acquaintance works seven days a week.
Rep. Suzie Bassi: "Illinois in Utter Crisis, Next to Bankruptcy, $13bn Hole in a $28bn Budget" ADP: January Job Losses Were Actually TRIPLE What We Thought, And No, We Won't Blame The Snowicane
Sovereign Debt Woes: Who's the 'U' in STUPID? (from Rice Farmer)
Britain Grapples With Debt of Greek Proportions
UK jobs warning
Exclusive: Paulson and other smart money buying dirt (from Rice Farmer)
Australia government plans $45 billion overhaul of health

Hamas: Arab state behind Dubai assassination
You Could Now Be Arrested, In America, Just For Mentioning Europe's Problems Over Dinner
U.S. To Offer Suspicious Activity Report Training Nationwide (from Rice Farmer)

Secrecy News:

The White House yesterday released a newly declassified description (pdf) of the Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative (CNCI), a highly classified program that is intended to protect U.S. government computer networks against intrusion and disruption. U.S. Army doctrine (pdf) published last week anticipates an increasingly unstable information environment that may challenge Army operations and test national capabilities. The Army's assessment and proposed response are described in "Cyberspace Operations Concept Capability Plan 2016-2028," TRADOC Pamphlet 525-7-8, February 22, 2010.

Asia buys record volume of W.African oil in Q1
Saudi Arabia May Nearly Double Oil Supply to India
Crude or food? Investors should trade their oil for soil

City of Los Angeles sues family practicing water conservation
Pacific Northwest at risk for mega earthquake
GM Potato Approval 'A Big Step for Germany'

Swiss To Vote On Whether Animals Need Lawyers


Paul Mineau said...

Mike’s post about Greece really got me thinking, I’d like to share my ideas/feelings with the community. I want to sponsor some people on CollapseNet, I can afford a couple subscriptions. I know that my community is going to get hit hard in the not so distant future, but other countries are breaking down much faster. Not everyone is going to be able to afford a subscription, especially not in Greece. Getting access to Mike’s work is priceless… anyone who’s read “Rubicon” or “Confronting Collapse”, or been to one of his Lectures or Q&A’s know the high value, sharpness, well researched, and no BS excellence MCR delivers. How valuable is surviving? Is that worth 10$/month? How about someone else’s life?

I know the value of my life, and anyone’s life, is how they help the people around them: family, friends, community, and the global community. I do a lot to help those around me but I feel helpless when it comes to helping those from afar. I want to help others but only if it helps them help themselves and help others, not just disappear down the drain.

Please consider my crazy idea for a feature for CollapseNet that would help me sponsor others. When I come to the site and login, I go to a listing of people who want to be sponsored. They have a picture, their location, and a story about how they want to change their situation and help those around them. I click a “sponsor me” button, and pay for 3 months subscription for them. When the subscription comes close to expiring, I get an email telling me to renew if I want. I check out what they’ve done in the world (pictures and videos of what they’ve accomplished). This way, if someone doesn’t achieve and produce, I can put my money elsewhere.

I don’t want to sponsor anyone who is just there to ‘engage’, or ‘interact’. I want to help people who are there to Transform and Extend. What do you think.

v said...

Germany Snubs Greek Aid Plea as Protest Snarls Athens Traffic

Greece passes new deficit cuts to avert 'catastrophe'



Γιώργος Επιτήδειος said...

I think you are over-reacting. Greece cannot fall into a Leninist style of drastically reduced, oppressive government.

1. Europe (our biggest creditor) will not accept this.
2. Greeks love private property too much.
3. The Leninists have no organizational skills other than gathering people in the streets. They cannot achieve something of this magnitude.

Finally, curious as it may seems the Greek economy is not in a bad condition compared to others. The government debt is high but not that of the households. Notice also that the property values have remained stable while the market has been anemic for the last two years. Most people have big enough pockets to keep the economy reasonably functioning.

Sebastian Ernst Ronin said...

Re “That would actually look like the human race was evolving to a different state of consciousness.”

MCR, with all due respect, but have you been sharing a glass with RanD? For starters, 90 percent of the human species is out to lunch and will take the brunt of the die-off hit. For any kind of evolutionary change to occur would entail several millennia. We happen to be looking at running a gauntlet that has been compacted into one century. A sixth toe will not sprout over such an eye blink, no more than Kevin Kostner was able to “evolve” webbed feet and gills over the course of shooting a Hollywood fantasy. How is it a possibility to speak within the same breath about mass human die-off and mass human evolution?

I realize that the globalist framing of the illusory notion of “humanity” is a tough layer of skin to have to shed. But so be it. These are our times. Clarity of vision and commitment to relative action is tantamount.

I seriously have to wonder if, and when, Peak Oilers will develop a political consciousness beyond feel-good cyber hugs and a stunted Amerikan jingoism. Post-Peak Oil is the condition; it is the socio-political driver. NAmerican secession is a natural, entropic consequence, i.e. collapse of industrial civilization entails the collapse of the industrial nation-state. Lastly, like any and all revolutions that have ever been, history determines the most predominant social agent to carry the revolution. In the Post-Peak Oil world of Occidental re-invention, it is not the human “race.”

Weaseldog said...

Agape Wins, in regards to your comment on the previous thread...

Do you think that unemployment will effect the summer driving surge?

Doesn't the summer driving surge begin in June? If so, how does that effect crude oil prices in May?

Isn't there a lag effect between crude prices and gasoline prices?

Now, you may well be right and crude prices will remain high in May. I'm sticking to the notion that there will be a drop. I ascribe that to the increasing unemployment problem. The 9% per annum decline in oil demand in the USA. The notion that current high prices are leading to bankruptcies and more unemployment.

I think that we're going through a correction phase at the moment. When we come out of it, our demand will be far lower than supply, and we'll see a short term supply glut. The price drop will be temporary.

Now there are factors that could keep oil prices high. We could start another war, possibly with Iran. China could increase demand dramatically. A major oil producing nation could experience a crisis that damages their export capability.

Weaseldog said...

Economists: Another Financial Crisis on the Way

The report warns that the country is now immersed in a "doomsday cycle" wherein banks use borrowed money to take massive risks in an attempt to pay big dividends to shareholders and big bonuses to management – and when the risks go wrong, the banks receive taxpayer bailouts from the government.

"Risk-taking at banks," the report cautions, "will soon be larger than ever."

It takes a while for these, 'Economists' to figure things out.

Risk taking at banks never diminished. All that happened with the bailouts is that they began ending conventional business practices and became more dependant on this 'risk-taking'.

But it's not really 'risk-taking', because the taxpayer guarantees their losses on 'cost-plus' basis. 'Risk-taking' implies a downside to the behavior.

Weaseldog said...

Sebastian Ernst Ronin said...

Re “That would actually look like the human race was evolving to a different state of consciousness.”


For any kind of evolutionary change to occur would entail several millennia. We happen to be looking at running a gauntlet that has been compacted into one century. A sixth toe will not sprout over such an eye blink, no more than Kevin Kostner was able to “evolve” webbed feet and gills over the course of shooting a Hollywood fantasy. How is it a possibility to speak within the same breath about mass human die-off and mass human evolution?

Sebastion, that's a very simplified and passe' view of evolution.

You're not alone in thinking this is the only way it works. But that view hasn't been mainstream in the scientific community for decades.

Now you're right about gills, but six toed people do exist. If you only bred people who had six toes together, your likelyhood of starting a six toed race would be dramatically increased. In only a few generations, you'd have a majority of babies born with six toes.

This is what happens in bottlenecks. And it's been well established through observation and experiment, that we see accelerated evolutionary effects in such bottlenecks. In an evolutionary bottleneck, traits that promote reproduction are dramatically amplified and those that reduce reproduction are eliminated.

This is how animal breeding has worked for thousands of years. We discard animals with undesirable traits and give those with highly desirable traits, many opportunities to reproduce.

If you look at Belyaev's fox-breeding experiment for instance, you'll see that it takes only a few generations to evolve profound changes in personality.

There is no rational reason to believe that such an experiment would not have similar influences on humans.

johnnyboydakota said...

I really like the idea. I too will sponser others. $10 a month is very little for such great information. Mowing two lawns a month is worth $10. Going out to lunch is worth $10. If someone is unable to earn $10 in the course of a month, then they aren't trying. But I am willing to do my part to help someone that is really unable to access great information.

Weaseldog said...

Does this CollapseNet already exist? Or is it's infancy being hashed out on another forum somewhere?

Sebastian Ernst Ronin said...

Weaseldog, okay point taken...for consideration. I maintain that if the evolutionary process was limited to natural evolution, then the time-frame would be millennia.

You state, "But that view hasn't been mainstream in the scientific community for decades," followed by the zinger, "This is how animal breeding has worked for thousands of years. We discard animals with undesirable traits and give those with highly desirable traits, many opportunities to reproduce."

Are you implying that scientific-social engineering in a PPO bottleneck era may or should embrace eugenics? Because if not, if I understand you correctly, then we are left with the "natural" time-frame of millennia. Will the die-off itself not constitute an effective, Darwinian process of eugenics?

MCR said...

Paul -- I think that's a great idea. But what we'll probably do is give free memberships to people in severely depressed regions in exchange for quality reporting on how things proceed there.

We'll figure it out. We're still in the design room.


Darklayk said...

Brilliant Idea Paul, I have been concerned about how the less well off will gain access to such valuable info. I hope MCR and whoever else is designing the new site have a think about your idea.

I will be subscribing but i hope there is perhaps a free front page of brief news/warnings for those that can't afford to, with perhaps more in depth analysis, reporting and communication done behind the paywall

MCR said...

To our Greek friend whose name I cannot read or pronounce. -- I've always done what anyone in the military does, listen first to those with eyes and boots on the ground. That's why you're so valuable. By Lenninist I didn't necessarily mean communist. I was using Lenninist to indicate severe and brutal repression arising from near chaotic conditions.

Europe needs stability in Greece certainly. But there's not going to be any recovery in Europe. In Yugoslavia Tito was a slightly more benign version of this trend.

Thank you for speaking up. Please teach us. Please teach me.


Weaseldog said...

johnnyboydakota said... "If someone is unable to earn $10 in the course of a month...,"

I can afford it, if I can justify it.

But in my own case, I've been through some severe ups and downs the last ten years. I work in the software industry, and my area was hard hit when a number of giants in the industry laid off tens of thousands of engineers in early 2001.

At this time, my hours have been reduced by one day a week with a subsequent pay cut. At this time, I'm living paycheck to paycheck.

So for me, the question isn't, "Can I earn ten dollars a month?". The question I have instead is, "Is spending this money on CollapseNet a better choice than spending it on something else?"

eyeballs said...

Ronin, ach!

Die-offs are part of evolution! The survival of the fittest does not refer to the meanest, though, or the muscliest. It's those who are fit for what's available, who adjust to new conditions and develop new systems for new situations.

You're probably right about the 90%, though I suspect a lot of folks you wouldn't think are fit will just blunder through, reproducing and keeping their kids alive long enough to pass their genes and their weird ideas into the mix.

Evolution will sort out what works, and who fits the new and changing conditions. So even if we make mistakes, their failure will indicate to the rest that another adaptation is needed, and eventually a culture or cultures will emerge which respond creatively to the new scene or scenes. The vital question for this blog is:

How do we adapt and evlove, and swell the number of people who adapt successfully?

That's what Mike has been about, and fatalism saps the vitality of the effort. "You and I, we been through that... and this is not our fate. So let us not talk falsely now. The hour is getting LATE."

With respect.

Jenna Orkin said...

glad you're ok

dalex said...

Agape Wins: Small misunderstanding, apparently... CMIGS ships the metal to you -- the (modest) costs are included in their quoted price. Storage location is entirely the owner's decision.

businessman said...

Wow! In having been around this Blog for years, this one single thread may have the best, most well-thought-out posts and interactions between members from top to bottom of any thread I've read.

Weaseldog said...

Sebastian Ernst Ronin said...
Are you implying that scientific-social engineering in a PPO bottleneck era may or should embrace eugenics? Because if not, if I understand you correctly, then we are left with the "natural" time-frame of millennia. Will the die-off itself not constitute an effective, Darwinian process of eugenics?

Your question is little confusing. I'll answer it as best I understand it.

Are you implying that scientific-social engineering in a PPO bottleneck era may or should embrace eugenics?

I don't think that any sort of intentional scientific-social engineering will be possible through the PPO bottleneck. I don't believe that such a worldwide organizational structure can survive the fall of our hi-tech civilization.

I expect there will be genocidal events. The 20th century was rife with them. We should expect more. But I don't expect any widespread organization or long term plan to be involved. i just expect that certain peoples will be scapegoated and massacred, in certain locales. How this will evolve as to who or win is anybody's guess.

Because if not, if I understand you correctly, then we are left with the "natural" time-frame of millennia. Will the die-off itself not constitute an effective, Darwinian process of eugenics?

'Natural' time frames can be swift. The term 'bottleneck' was originally conceived to describe rapid evolution, due to near extinction events in nature. our own evolution as Homo Sapiens, is thought now to have been the result of a bottleneck event. It's thought that rapid climate change, perhaps from volcanic eruptions wiped out many of the members of our ancestral species, and those left, more closely resembled, and evolved into our current form.

'Eugenics' implies purpose, provided by human will.

In animal breeding, man uses evolutionary principles to force evolution in a given direction. When applied to humans, we call this eugenics.

When nature does it, we call it evolution.

I'm not trying to be glib. I'm just trying to be clear in my use of terms.

It's my opinion that there will be only hundreds of millions of humans alive at the end of this century. They will live in a dramatically different world. I may be that evolution for a time will favor humans that need less to eat, and can survive on less nutritious foods. At least for a time. Geographical isolation will become the rule again, and I expect that our descendants will evolve into more than one species, occupying different ecological niches. After all, we will have eliminated most of the animals species that we compete with. There will be evolutionary pressure for evolving humans to fill those niches.

Natural evolution can run fast and slow. It just depends on what pressures are present in the environment.

Weaseldog said...

Nice Dylan / Hendrix reference Eyeballs.

I don't know about the word 'fatalism' in this context. I think the word 'acceptance' is more appropriate.

I don't know how much influence we can actually have, on what happens beyond our reach in time and space.

Or in other words, I'm not sure that our will and intentions, in trying to determine specifically which DNA gets handed down to future generations is under our control. Further, I don't know that we have the wisdom to make the right choices.

And remember, don't do anything that affects anything, unless it turns out you were supposed to, in which case, for the love of God, don't not do it! - Professor Farnsworth

Sebastian Ernst Ronin said...

eyeballs, agreed re "It's those who are fit for what's available, who adjust to new conditions and develop new systems for new situations." At no point have I ever claimed that survival is anything other than being best equipped (between one's ears and in one's soul) to adapt. A handful of AK’s can do no harm. Much of it comes down to working smarter, not harder. However, for such action to be effective, it has to be premised by clear vision and clean motives. Any degree of sugar-coating or leading with false humility is a mistake and a liability. I cite Talleyrand for one of my favourite quotes on political action: "It was worse than a crime; it was a mistake."

Yes, we may very well be manning different vestibules with differing angles on the approaching storm, but it is one and the same watchtower.

Sebastian Ernst Ronin said...

Weaseldog, re "It's my opinion that there will be only hundreds of millions of humans alive at the end of this century."

Agreed, two billion max. As for your projections beyond that, you are more than welcome to entertain. I think it best to deal with the immediate monkey staring us in the face, the concrete challenges of this particular intersection of time and space: running the gauntlet of the current century, the opening stages of which I shall be alive for.

On the other side of the Rubicon, smash the boats and cooking utensils. There is no use for them, and they hinder will and resolve.

sunrnr said...

"Economic Treason" -

An LPL Advisor has launched a nation wide campaign asking the public to demand a special prosecutor be named to investigate the "Economic Treason" of Wall Street.

LPL adviser's ads blast ‘economic treason' of Wall Street

It's call to action folks. Now's the time join in. Listen to his message and consider doing what he asks.


Paul Mineau said...

Mike, thanks. I would like very much to get reporting from the ground in the places that are collapsing faster.

I hope there's someway we can help the people far away. and I'm sure they can help us too.

Sebastian Ernst Ronin said...

End of Civilization/Die-Off Considerations (When in Rome): What will be the last sight to pass before your eyes? What will be the last utterance that escapes your mouth? What will be the very last thought that runs through your mind? Will it be, “Oh my God, I did it all wrong!” The horror.

Simon said...

Evolution can be quick, or slow. If one subscribes to the theory of political ponerology (that physcopaths rise to positions of power because it is their forte) then a probable consequence of what we are heading into is a world largely run by physcopaths. (more so than at present) Connditions for reproduction are going to favour physcopaths. It is therefore forseeable that in very few generations the human population could well become a far nastier thing than it is at present.
Thinking beyond that it may well be that the phsycopaths see each other as threats, kill each other off, and the meek do really inherit the earth. To do that the meek must first survive and to do that they must be prepared to defend themselves. The best preparation is always that which is applied earliest.

Get to a safe place away from large populations, where everyone knows everyone else.
Become as self sufficient as you can.
Become a vaulable member of that community.
learn to recognise and manage risk.
Learn from history
Read the art of war and take the time to understand the timeless lessons contained within.

If you have not yet done that then you are probably too bloody late.
All the rest is irrelevant nonsense that distracts from the real work that needs to be done, like learning to grow food, operate livestock, learning to shoot straight, and making sure your kids have some fun in the process.

I applaud MCR's efforts, but I do wonder if waking the wider population up is truly a wise thing to do, in that it risks making the inevitable far more dangerous than it would otherwise be. That, folks, is an evolutionary filter or "bottleneck"
and it bears carefull consideration. Does that position make me a phsycopath, or just pragmatic and concerned for my genetic future?

The following is the detail of an article posted to me by one of my network. It is worth finding as it is as clear a picture of the coming terrain as I have seen yet.

I do not have a link, but I am sure someone else can find it.

Prognosis 2012
26 Feb 2010
Richard K. Moore

Best of luck

Dimitris said...

Well, I am also greek and I have a message similar to that of Georgios. The international media these days tell frightening stories about the austerity measures and the huge deficits of Greece. This is also the case with the media in Greece - pessimism porn is all over the evening news. If Greece is measured like a northern Europe democracy, then they are probably right. But what they fail to see is that at the core of our society there is resilience built-in.

First, unemployment will be an serious issue but the family ties are still strong. It is unthinkable for parents in Greece to let their sons and daughters suffer, so they will support them with their last euro cent if they have to.

Second, the majority of the people here are not the big irresponsible spenders that the media present them to be. Many have been tempted by the easy credit in the 2000s and borrowed too much. Many small businesses also fell for the easy credit trap. But since the banking system here is conservative by modern standards, and collateral for all loans were requested, most people can still get out of debt by loosing only part of their assets.

Third, it is not easy to see that living in Greece is still cheap, despite the upcoming stagflation. Food flea markets still thrive, as greeks never really trusted their nutrition to big retailers. The climate here is excellent and this winter has been the mildest I remember so far. And, guess what, people are still gathering to haggle in the foot of the Acropolis rock as they did 2500 years ago.

Fourth, if everything else fails, many will seek shelter in Orthodox church, as people here are generally religious.

In the end, many will miss their Mercedes cars, summer holidays and credit-card shopping. Many others will have to cut back even on life necessities. Greek economy will shrink, may default on its debt or not, stay in the eurozone or leave. As long as there is still some "filotimo" left in this country, I prefer living here than anywhere else in the world.


Elmo said...

"The die-off. That will be a very unpleasant kind of anarchy."

Better start building that solar-electric razor wire fence, & the gun turrets, while there's still time! :-)

sunrnr said...

Sebastian, re:"...What will be the very last thought that runs through your mind?..."

"Thank GOD, it's finally over!"


RanD said...

Sebastian Ernst Ronin and Weaseldog: re your exchange:

You're both heading toward where we're at and we proffer no apologies; to whomever is pissed off: fuck you: we're all in this one together; like it or not: get smarter. Either we're working collaboratively or some of us are still stupid.

Our take; our vote:

Population attrition will be 90%, at least. Humans beings definitely play a determinative role in what's taking place and in what will be taking place. The existential paradigm out of which the mere human physiological organisms in which "we" are embodied and "do our things" is utterly and absolutely and inexorably subordinate to the SOURCE of our -- and absolutely everything else's -- existence. Those who don't know this or reject this or defy this are stupid: stupid ones will NOT be found beyond the consummation of the process in which we ALL currently find ourselves.

Give careful thought to these words: EVERYONE's future is linked to the above.

Elmo said...

"The die-off. That will be a very unpleasant kind of anarchy."

Better start building that solar-electric razor wire fence, & the gun turrets, while there's still time! :-)

businessman said...

Here's a video clip of a sheriff in Arizona discussing states' rights, a U.S. Supreme Court ruling giving states the right to not do what the Federal Government tells then to do, and how his county stood up to the Federal Government's threats and disobeyed them in order to get what they wanted for themselves.

This may become more common as people get even angrier at the local levels:

Click here to see the video clip

Dubai said...

I have been reading this blog for a while. Some of YOU are are WAY over alarmist. There is no doubt, energy is on the down-turn. Somedays, I feel like vomit when I hear MR talking - feels like he's sorry for himself or in general, a suck and wants the world to hear.

Your movie was great - never saw it in theatres but found it on torrent. Your breakdown was emotional and I feel passion.

Many of you feel because the passive condition of people in some societies (north america) feels absolute, you feel people will simply fall apart and die. I do remember LA and Rodney King and then saw a bunch of people pull together to stop that race b.s.

Don't ever question to HUMAN condition to sell whatever it is you are selling. Mike is not a messiah and some of you write like he is. Stop being sheeple to media and to this blog. You will survive if FORCED to survive.

Some of the whiney messages from MR are vomet-comet quality and I just chuckle. Some are good but he is not a poet.

Go ahead, try and shoot me. But I laugh at some of you. You talk, feel elite, as you are AWARE compared to the mass of sheeple...and you are...but get over yourself.

How about enjoying life as best you can. I know 2 to 3 people who died at 42 with sudden, unexpected illnesses. ENJOY LIFE. If we are confronted with challenge, so be it. BUT ENJOY LIFE. We may face a great challenge to humanity soon, or later, but in the mean time, be aware but ENJOY LIFE.

eyeballs said...

Hey Dimitris!

Thank you so much for your expression of what will really be valuable. I loved filotimo. And this was great:

"In the end, many will miss their Mercedes cars, summer holidays and credit-card shopping."


The part about cutting back on necessities was a bit more grim. But as the article on filotimo suggests, we save ourselves a great deal by not desiring what is not ours. To me that suggests that our "needs" could be misperceived.

We need food, water and shelter, and sometimes medical attention. That's about it on the material plane. But we need friends who understand us and care what happens to us. We need understanding and information about our world. We need meaningful work that gives us a sense of accomplishment (not merely exhaustion) when we knock off for the day. Things like these do not require much oil, and never needed coltan or gallium or lithium dioxide or lead, nor even gold.

If we want to thrive in the coming time, the best strategy is to look carefully at our "needs" and decide what really produces human happiness. We may find whole new realms of "economy" that do not require environmental pillage or stock manipulation. And that, IMHO, will be the new world to which we must adapt, into which we should be happy and grateful to evolve.

Paul Mineau said...

eyeballs, that was beautiful. The Dalai Lama and other Tibetan teachers taught me that we have everything we need to be happy, and compassion for others is the best source. All our troubles seem to go away. And there's some social Darwinism in not practicing Compassion.

I know the things I enjoy the most are working with other sustainability folks learning about simple things like tree grafting or growing tomatoes. The more I'm helping these people and the more they're helping me, the better our chances, and I'm pretty sure we'll have a great life.

I wanted to thank you for the beautiful comment.

eyeballs said...


Sherrif Mack is illustrative of what may become very common: localities thumbing their noses at the Empire. But this is not necessarily a good thing. We should not rejoice if a state government claims to "own" Federal Park land or National Forest.

The Federal government "owns" the West because they stole it from the Indians, the buffalo, the prairie grass and assorted Mexican interests. They then sold vast amounts of it to railroad tycoons, in order to encourage rapid settlement and economic return. Much of that land became the key towns of the West, and a lot of the rest came to be owned by lumber giants like Weyerheauser. What was off the railroad was developed much later, and had to be either homesteaded (very small parcels) or purchased directly from the Federal Government. That much was not privatized, give credit to Teddy Roosevelt, who felt that hunting and stopming around in natural settings was a core American value.

Today, species are protected and water is managed by Federal regulation on Federal lands. It's not actually done that well, but the State of Arizona can hardly be depended on to do a better job. After all, those few citizens would quickly vote to use all the water table up right now, for their own profit, and build on the protected lands, come what may.

I think, for many reasons, we will miss Empire when it ceases to operate effectively.

Sylook said...

Greece is following the standard collapse pattern as witnessed all around the world. So far it has been an easy target for rampant speculation and profit. Things are bad because of the debt but the issue for me is not if the Greek state will declare bankruptcy or not. I fear/believe that all western states are going there anyway. All that matters is how much time we have left.
I sense that most countries will experience a ''scalable decay'' for a few years to come until the day of THE collapse and the eventual die-off. The events of Greece are not the trigger, they are merely symptoms of the systemic failure of our civilization. Yesterday it was Iceland, today Greece and tomorrow Ireland or England. It's all in the plan. A few will gain billions on the way to the very end. I don't know if that will help them though ;-)
On another note, things in Athens are pretty bad today, practically nothing works because of a massive 24hour strike but I guess that will be ''the normal'' from now on.
MCR, we will stay in touch if you need some more regular reporting.
Kiriakos from Athens, Greece

Sebastian Ernst Ronin said...

RanD, you are full of shit, always have been full of shit, and will continue to be full of shit. Your delusions have only been superseded by your nauseous degree of self-centeredness. I am convinced that the only reason Orkin has allowed you access to this community for so long is for comic relief. This take has been reciprocated by sources that would likely shock you.

During reasonably good times, to carry a court jester is not a big deal; there is enough to go around for all. However, once entry has been made onto Death Ground a court jester becomes a useless luxury and liability feeding off scarce and precious resources. In our cyber-gathering, these resources are intellect, imagination, courage, forthrightness, integrity, clear vision, etc. It is time to leave you at the side of the road where you can babble to yourself, continue with your spiritual masturbation unhindered, and troll for converts to the birds in the trees.

I move, to the members of and contributors to this community, that Jenna Orkin terminate with extreme prejudice the input of RanD to this blog. It is a simple black/white, yea/nay decision to make.

I vote: Yea.

meb1947 said...

Here's that 2012 Prognosis by Moore.

businessman said...

Dubai...I don't understand how on the one hand you tell us you saw MCR's movie and it was great, and then you criticize both him and many of us for believing in, openly discussing, and acting upon all that was mentioned within his movie.

The map that MCR has been giving us for years has been extremely accurate, and right now it's proving to be more accurate than ever. I understand if you don't like what's on that map, but let us know in two years or so whether or not a lot that's been discussed within the movie and within this Blog has already happened by then.

Two years ago there were people reading this Blog who thought what we were saying in here was crazy, but now all that stuff has already happened, too.

businessman said...

Sebastian....Don't withhold your real feelings about RanD like that...Please, just let it all come out openly and unedited...;)

As many others within this Blog know, I haven't been a fan of RanD's postings myself, and have openly said so.

There are a lot of people in here who share the same opinion with both Sebastian and me on this one, but there are also some people who have liked what RanD has had to say in here at times, too.

So as much as I'm not a big fan of RanD's writings...because there are some others in here who like what they have to say sometimes, I can understand why Jenna still forwards RanD's posts onto the Blog.

gamedog said...

I might not agree with everything RanD has to say, but I'll defend their right to say it, even when I'm being called 'stupid'.

I might not agree that a white supremacist movement can call it's self non-racist, but I wouldn't call for a ban on it's proponents from this blog.

Diversity breeds resilience ;)

Dubai said...'re correct. I probably was too hard in my post. I actually broke down watching MR break-down. I know he is a passionate and well-spoken man. I want him to focus on the things he is really certain about and do less speculative works.

I would have seen the movie but there was no airplay where I am. Sadly, I had to go online. I will consider CollapseNet but I once went to a "peak oil" group meeting and all I met were some really weird cats that were disgrace to a really serious subject.

businessman said...

Dubai...Thank you for your honesty.

It's easy to think that the stuff MCR has predicted on the map can't possibly happen. It seems so far beyond what many of us could ever have imagined being possible. But when you look at the sequential steps involved once we understand what's coming our way with respect to less energy now being available, and at higher costs, it all fits step after another.

And at the same time, it all really sucks!

RanD said...

Sebastian, your recent "RanD you are full of shit" rant is written with the panache that can come only from an excellent brain, one which is programmed to violently react to information that it has been caused to reject.

-- A recent FTW accolade that we directed to Ecosutra re his "Genius and Sincerity" informed its every reader that "[a]ny offense our words might cause are unintended: the regularly conflicted & conflicting objectives that are endemic to this world sometimes require implementing non-politically correct communication strategies to better determine/understand each other's actual mindsets."

-- Also: our impression is that you regularly keep up with FTW's offerings; which, when coupled with your typically displayed keen, highly spirited, and 'virtually' irrepressible inquisitiveness, tells us that you read the above quote from RanD to Ecosutra before this recent exchange between you and RanD.

Now then, with the above being so, which it is, how might you explain that the words you're reading here are from those who are, as you say: "full of shit", i.e. delusional, self-centered comedians and spiritual masturbators who Jenna Orkin should terminate from this blog with extreme prejudice?

You of course stand a good chance of convincing incorrigible fools -- i.e., genuine 'stupids' -- that RanD, as you say, is "full of shit" and needs be gotten rid of; but, those of us who are not incorrigible fools are inclined to say you should address exclusively the proverbial mirror when condemning that which only unfortunate genuine 'stupids' refuse to understand.

But then this world is of course also one which has both adversaries & allies; doesn't it.

eyeballs said...

Meb 1947:

I used to worry about being "chipped, tagged, drugged, and living in slums patrolled by Chinese-made robotic soldiers with strangely familiar sounding Austrian accents."

But now it seems to me that TPTB, anxious as they are to control resources and squelch competition, will have much more to worry about than how we raise our kids and whether we manage to get any education (obviously on our own, not through publicly funded schools). They won't be able to "rule the world" in all its complexity and will soon give up trying.

True, there's a huge surge in the technology of surveilance and control. Robotics and microminiturization have allowed amazing advances in asymetric warfare. Ironically, by bringing the price down R & D has made quite a few of these advances available to everyone, not just the Dark Lords. You don't have to be rich to afford a model airplane and a cellphone, which together contain all the technology of a drone spy plane. I have even seen on some website a bomb-bay function that you can add, to drop leaflets, paintballs, or WMD. In fact, I would say that techno-terror could become a much more comptetitive sport in the times to come, not just a few false flags and nut cases.

The world is a very big place. Not so big that we can't presently zoom around it in less than a day, but vast and complex enough that controling each aspect of it without unleashing new horrors is very, very difficult. In fact, even TPTB are soon to find that the planet likes to run itself, and is better left that way.

Meglomania is an occupational hazard of government, industry, finance and religion. These guys do hatch big plans, and do get to thinking "We can have it ALL!" But they never succeed - they never even get close for very long. And the rest of us depend, for our survival, on restraining the tendency to play power games with our remaining life support systems.

No one will "rule the world". The important question will be how soon this crap is criminalized in the eyes of the general population, such that we can get on with living while that's still possible. My guess: a very rough transition -- in the course of which people do very clearly begin to see power grabs as inimical to future survival -- followed by regional cooperation in (by and large) much more sensible patterns.

Either that, or we're toast.

Elmo said...

What's amazing to me is how you folks all seem to think you're going to survive this whole "collapse" fiasco. Trust me, you won't! What, do you think you're just going to sit on a hill and watch us kill each other? Get Real! Once the Internet goes down, you'll be bouncing off the walls! "CollapseNet!" LOL!

Hotspringswizard said...

That was great Sebastion :-) Yea it is! Perhaps we need help from THE SOURCE to finally remove the Jester :-)

Hotspringswizard said...

And the truth is, RanD is preaching the Gospel here to all of us " unlightened " ones. Hidden in the vagaries of this prase " The Source ", and in convoluted language such as this, " this Universal Principle whereof all organizational subsets of the Universal whole make their distinctive contributions to the Universal whole’s integrity is now able to begin humanly manifesting through humanly-embodied progressively SELF-Self-self-conscious spirits—directly with reality itself—on into reality’s own eternal future ", is RanD's mission to move us all to become believers!

At RanD's " web page ", there you will find " The Little Book Of Life ", and at the end of the Attribution section you will read this, " Christ has returned, to completely be received and interminably be in all who consciously—fully and peacefully and simply—live their lives constantly and exclusively in recognition of and service to GOD.

And it is hereby in this recognition and service—of and to the SPIRIT which is SOURCE and MEANS of everything that exists—that our human species, itself, both instates and begins experiencing its residency in GOD’s Kingdom of Heaven on Earth and throughout the Universe ".

It appears RanD thinks they are the Pastor, and FTW is their church, within which they will continue to dispense " their " word of God ( oops, I mean The Source ).