Saturday, November 29, 2008

Readers have been sending in enormously helpful articles and insights, almost tantamount to on-the-scene reporting, from India and Pakistan. Among the contributions, the following from Russia Today, submitted by Larry Bolenbaugh, which corroborates Mike's suspicions about Chechen training for the Mumbai attackers.

It also highlights the 'misguided' allocation of so called anti-terror funding as a result of which, Cui Bono?

In light of the hope voiced at the end of the article by Russian presidential envoy Anatoly Safanov for a meeting of the Russian-Indian counter-terrorism working group, the two countries' joint naval exercise in January comes not a moment too soon.


Mumbai terrorists used Chechen tactics - Russia Today - 2008-11-28

The terrorists in the Indian city of Mumbai, who killed more than 150 people and injured over 300, used the same tactics that Chechen field militants employed in the Northern Caucasus, says Russian counter terrorism presidential envoy Anatoly Safonov.

In towns of the Northern Cauasus in 1990s, terrorists seized homes and hospitals and took numerous hostages.

"These tactics were used during raids by militant Chechen field commanders Shamil Basayev and Salman Raduyev against the towns of Buddyonnovsk and Pervomaiskoye. For the first time in history the entire towns were terrorized, with homes and hospitals seized. The Mumbai terrorists have learned these tactics well," Safonov told Russian news agency Interfax on Thursday.

Safonov says that the terror in Mumbai is proof that the anti-terror measures on a regional level are insufficient.

"The world is spending enormous resources to fight nonexistent threats and to support the military adventures of the leaders of certain countries. And it turns out that a big city may be unprotected against the raid of a handful of terrorists. This is another warning that in the global world terrorism truly remains the greatest challenge," Safonov said to Interfax.

He also pointed out that now it's the task of Indian special services to track down the terrorist group behind the attack on Mumbai. Safonov said they would need to determine whether it was "a subsidiary of some prominent terrorist organization".

The presidential aide expressed hope that the Russian-Indian working group for combating terrorism will meet in the near future.

"We express our support and condolences to the people of India and sympathize with the families that lost relatives and dear ones in the terrorist attack in Mumbai," Safonov said.

On Thursday terrorists attacked 10 targets in Mumbai, including several five star hotels, a cafe and a railway station.

Police say they have regained full control over the city.


Rice Farmer said...

Citigroup says gold could rise above $2,000 next year as world unravels

Check out their reasoning.

Citigroup has been saved... for now.

I too noticed the Russian statement. Of course it makes sense for them to point this out because it also serves to deflect suspicion from themselves. Nevertheless, this in no way detracts from the possibility that the attackers had Chechnyan training. Thank you, Mr. Safonov.

sunrnr said...

Here's a link to the eye witness account from the person who took the photo of one of the suspected gunmen.

The part about armed policemen being present at the train station and not firing back is interesting. Were they told before hand to to engage? Why only one gunman surviving and then telling all which seems to be pointing at Pakistan?

The ramp up of rhetoric about Pakistan's involvement and possible military retaliation is a bit disconcerting.

It very much seems to me to be staged with planned outcomes that won't be nice to all involved.


v said...

Hi Mike,

Good call on that 2.000$ GOLD price next year. Check out this article:

Also, I would like to point out this (MUST SEE) documentary:
"power of community, how Cuba survived Peak Oil"

Here's the videolink:


wxdude714 said...

This article is another sign of a changing game. Reality is hitting hard everywhere outside of the US. It will be interesting to see who is behind the Indian attacks. Maybe there's a bigger road map behind who is manipulating events worldwide. It appears that the quickness of the collaspe has caught the elites offguard. They don't want to lose the cheap Indian tech labor and the cheap manufactoring labor in China at the same time. The NAFTA SuperHighway is starting to show it's importance.

"Hu urged party leaders to step up efforts to reform its economic growth model to achieve development that is sustainable."

Peter J. Nickitas said...

Mike and Jenna:

Please check the latest story by Michel Chossudovsky on "Global Research."

This underscores the importance of reference to "Rubicon" in this blog, because "Rubicon" quotes Chossudovsky on Chechnya at pp. 136 - 137.

The quote below addresses "cui bono", means, motive, and will:

Divide and Rule

What interests are served by these attacks?

Washington is intent on using the Mumbai attacks to:

1) Foster divisions between Pakistan and India and shunt the process of bilateral cooperation and trade between the two countries;

2) Promote internal social, ethnic and sectarian divisions respectively in India and Pakistan;

3) Justify US military actions inside Pakistan including the killing of civilians in violation of the country's territorial sovereignty;

4) Provide a justification for extending the US led "war on terrorism" into the Indian sub-continent and South East Asia.

In 2006, the Pentagon had warned that "another [major 9/11 type terrorist] attack could create both a justification and an opportunity that is lacking today to retaliate against some known targets" (Statement by Pentagon official, leaked to the Washington Post, 23 April 2006). In the current context, the Mumbai attacks are considered "a justification" to go after "known targets" in the tribal areas of North Western Pakistan.

India's Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has stated that "external forces" forces carried the attacks, hinting to the possible role of Pakistan. The media reports also point in that direction, hinting that the Pakistani government is behind the attacks:

US officials and lawmakers refrained from naming Pakistan, but their condemnation of "Islamist terrorism" left little doubt where their anxieties lay.


What has added potency to the latest charges against Islamabad is the Bush administration's own assessment - leaked to the US media - that Pakistan's intelligence agency ISI was linked to the bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul some weeks back that killed nearly 60 people including a much-admired Indian diplomat and a respected senior defense official. (Times of India, November 27, 2008)

The Attacks have Triggered Anti-Pakistani Sentiment in India

The attacks have served to foster anti-Pakistani sentiment within India as well as sectarian divisions between Hindus and Muslims.

Time Magazine has pointed in no uncertain terms to the insidious role of "the powerful Inter Services Intelligence organization — often accused of orchestrating terror attacks on India", without acknowledging that the new head of the ISI was appointed at Washington's behest. (Time online).

The Time report suggests, without evidence, that the most likely architects of the attacks are several Pakistani sponsored Islamic groups including Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure), "which is part of the 'al-Qaeda compact'", Jaish-e-Mohammed, a Kashmiri separatist organization belonging to Al Qaeda which claimed responsibility in the December 2001 terrorist attacks on the Union parliament in Delhi and The Students Islamic Movement of India, (SIMI). (Ibid)

Both Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed are known to be supported by the ISI.

Islamabad-Delhi Shuttle Diplomacy

Pakistani president Asif Ali Zardari indicated that his government would fully collaborate with the Indian authorities.

Pakistan's newly elected civilian government has been sidetracked by its own intelligence services, which remain under the jurisdiction of the military high command.

The Pakistan's People's Party government under the helm of Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani. has no control over the military and intelligence apparatus, which continues to maintain a close rapport with its US counterparts.

In this context, president Asif Ali Zardari seems to be playing on both sides: collusion with the Military-Intelligence apparatus, dialogue with Washington and lip service to prime minister Gilani and the National Assembly.

On November 28, two days following the Mumbai attacks, Islamabad announced that the recently appointed ISI chief Lieutenant General Ahmed Shuja Pasha would be dispatched to Delhi for consultations with his Indian counterparts including National Security Advisor M K Narayanan and the heads of India's external intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and the Intelligence Bureau, responsible for internal intelligence. RAW and Pakistan's ISI are known to have been waging a covert war against one another for more than thirty years.1

On the following day (November 29), Islamabad cancelled the visit of ISI chief Lt Gen Shuja Pasha to India, following Indian foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee's "very aggressive tone with Pakistani officials [in a] telephone [conversation] after the Mumbai attacks". (Press Trust of India, November 29, 2008 quoting Geo News Pakistan).

Tense Situation. Deterioration of India-Pakistan Relations

The Mumbai attacks have already created an extremely tense situation, which largely serves US geopolitical interests in the region.

Islamabad is contemplating the relocation of some 100,000 military personnel from the Pakistani-Afghan border to the Indian border, "if there is an escalation in tension with India, which has hinted at the involvement of Pakistani elements in the Mumbai carnage." (Pakistan news source quoted by PTI, op cit).

"These sources have said NATO and the US command have been told that Pakistan would not be able to concentrate on the war on terror and against militants around the Afghanistan border as defending its borders with India was far more important," (Ibid, Geo News quoting senior Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir).

US Interference in the Conduct of the Indian Police Investigation

Also of significance is Washington's outright interference in the conduct of the Indian police investigation. The Times of India points to an "unprecedented intelligence cooperation involving investigating agencies and spy outfits of India, United States, United Kingdom and Israel."

Both the FBI and Britain's Secret Service MI6 have liaison offices in Delhi. The FBI has dispatched police, counter-terrorism officials and forensic scientists to Mumbai "to investigate attacks that now include American victims..." Experts from the London's Metropolitan Police have also been dispatched to Mumbai:

"The U.S. government's "working assumption" that the Pakistani militant groups Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed are suspects in the attacks "has held up" as Indian authorities have begun their investigation, the official said. The two Kashmiri militant groups have ties to al Qaeda." (Wall Street Journal, November 28, 2008)

The role of the US-UK-Israeli counter terrorism and police officials, is essentially to manipulate the results of the Indian police investigation.

It is worth noting, however that the Delhi government turned down Israel's request to send a special forces military unit to assist the Indian commandos in freeing Jewish hostages held inside Mumbai's Chabad Jewish Center (PTI, November 28, 2008).

Bali 2002 versus Mumbai 2008

The Mumbai terrorist attacks bear certain similarities to the 2002 Bali attacks. In both cases, Western tourists were targets. The tourist resort of Kuta on the island of Bali, Indonesia, was the object of two separate attacks, which targeted mainly Australian tourists. (Ibid)

The alleged terrorists in the Bali 2002 bombings were executed, following a lengthy trial period, barely a few weeks ago, on November 9, 2008. (Michel Chossudovsky, Miscarriage of Justice: Who was behind the October 2002 Bali bombings? Global Research, November 13, 2009). The political architects of the 2002 Bali attacks were never brought to trial.

A November 2002 report emanating from Indonesia’s top brass, pointed to the involvement of both the head of Indonesian intelligence General A. M. Hendropriyono as well as the CIA. The links of Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) to the Indonesian intelligence agency (BIN) were never raised in the official Indonesian government investigation --which was guided behind the scenes by Australian intelligence and the CIA. Moreover, shortly after the bombing, Australian Prime Minister John Howard "admitted that Australian authorities were warned about possible attacks in Bali but chose not to issue a warning." (Christchurch Press, November 22, 2002).

I appreciate the connection that "Rice Farmer" makes between gold's price and Mumbai.

Peter J. of Minneapolis

FTW admin said...


has left a new comment on your post "Readers have been sending in enormously helpful ar...":

Dennis from Oregon said...

I am tempted to say that you are all missing the possibility of the rest of the plan, that being a right wing military coup in India, leading to war with Pakistan.

It is hoped to be a bloodless coup, using the turmoil and confusion produced by these attacks to overturn the government of Manmohan Singh.

The new government, comprised of far right hawks in India’s military, intelligence and political offices of course will be quite friendly to US interests..

They are quite happy to play into US rhetoric promising them increased ties and a role as local policeman, and will be happy to show good faith to these promises to vanquish their rival in Pakistan.

They are tired of what they view as weak leadership by the Singh administration, and will grab India and take it on the desired course..

Watch it all play out...

PNW free thinker said...

Here's Chussodovsky's take on the
likely source and motives for the
Mumbai attacks...

I assume most of you will have seen
his take, but here it is for those
who have not...

Not commenting on it yet as I am still reading it...

carbonbased said...

Here's an interesting article:

The Famine Of 2009

Peter J. Nickitas said...

Here's an article today by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of UK's "Daily Telegraph," a newspaper that I believe leans to the Tories vs. New Labor:

The article addresses credit, and ignores the role of Peak Oil in the present crisis. Please note the point Mr. Pritchard makes on a possible nationalistic response by China to the social unrest in the wake of the Great Unraveling. One Japanese minister notes the increased Chinese submarine presence in the Sea of Japan and asks openly whether the US will come to Japan's aid in case of a Chinese attack.

I had not seen Mr. Pritchard's article before I thought out loud about a possible Sino-Japanese non-aggression pact on a comment of the 29th of November. Mr. Pritchard's article did not yet exist. How much mileage will the Chinese Communist Party make in pleading to its people that running dog capitalist financiers hood-winked the peace-loving, Mao-adoring, Marxist Politburo?

OrwellianUK said...

Hey Mike, what do you know about Ibrahim Dawood? are carrying a story about him.

Incidentally, I was intrigued by your assertion that Alex Jones blog is disinfo. Can you explain?

By the way, I am currently on page 31 of Crossing the Rubicon, so will need some time to catch up.

Tyler Havlin said...

Prophesy of economic collapse 'coming true'

"A new analysis suggests that economic growth may not be sustainable."

L. Balbus said...

November 8, 2008: “Shock as top Indian Army officer arrested over bomb attack”
“The Indian Army has been shocked by the arrest of a senior Military Intelligence officer on suspicion of involvement in a bomb attack by Hindu extremists in western India in September.
Colonel Srikant Prasad Purohit is the first serving officer in India's Army — seen as a bastion of secularism since the country's independence in 1947 — to be arrested on terrorism charges.”

November 16, 2008: “Malegaon blast was planned to wipe out SIMI”
“In a sensational revelation the arrested Army officer Lt Col Srikant Purohit on Friday reportedly confessed before the ATS that the Malegaon blast was planned to wipe out SIMI that had been carrying out so many terrorist activities in the country. He also tearfully admitted to his active role in many of the unsolved blast cases in the country. (…) He has also, reportedly, trained 500 persons on terror tactics, though the exact nature of training not revealed. The location for the terror training used to be an ashram near Ahmedabad.”

November 30, 2008: “Mumbai locals helped us, terrorist tells cops”
“Did some Mumbai locals provide support to the Pakistani terrorists? Azam Amir Kasab, the only Pakistani terrorist nabbed alive, has revealed names and addresses of at least five people from the city who helped the terror operation.
Sources said that help like, providing shelter, taking them around and showing places, passing information on police stations and nakabandhis were given by these locals.”

November 30, 2008: “Mumbai attackers trained by special forces: Russian expert”
“A top Russian counter-terrorism expert on Sunday underlined that the Mumbai attackers were not "ordinary terrorists" and were probably trained by the special operations forces set up in Pakistan by the US intelligence prior to the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan.”

November 30, 2008: “FBI team detained at Mumbai airport, released later”
“Immediately, after being not allowed permission, the FBI team got in touch with their Mission in New Delhi who in turn contacted officials in External Affairs Ministry.”

November 30, 2008: “India hopes for US pressure on Pakistan against terror”
“Obama has already articulated his new approach to the war on terror and continuing instability in Afghanistan that could involve a proactive involvement of Pakistan and a likely US role in the resolution of the Kashmir dispute.”

November 29, 2008: “China official daily says don’t rule out Hindu radicals”'t-rule-out.../391937
“The Chinese Communist party’s mouthpiece — the People’s Daily — has carried a news article, indicating involvement of Hindu radicals in the Mumbai Terror attacks. The article has based its argument on a “red thread” worn by the attackers on their wrists.”

Rice Farmer said...

Press and "Psy Ops" to merge at NATO Afghan HQ: sources

L. Balbus said...

Hemant Karkare (Marathi: हेमंत करकरे) (1 July 1954 – 26 November 2008) was the chief of the Mumbai Anti Terrorist Squad. He was killed during the November 2008 Mumbai attacks after being hit in his chest by three bullets fired by terrorists.

Karkare was a 1982 batch IPS officer and also held a Bachelor of Engineering degree in Mechanical Engineering from Visvesvaraya National Institute of Technology, Nagpur. As an ATS Chief, he was involved in the Malegaon blast probe and Naxalite-infested Chandrapur district of Maharashtra. Before joining the IPS Mr. Hemant Karkare worked for Hindustan Leaver. He also served as ADDL. COM of Police (Administration).

Karkare had solved the serial bomb blasts in Thane, Vashi and Panvel and was also credited for the revelations in the investigation of the 29 September blast in Malegaon. In January 2008, he was named the head of the ATS after returning to the state cadre. He was credited for helping to uncover the revelations of the involvement of certain right wing parties that came about in the investigation of the September 29th blast in Malegaon in which three bombs exploded in Gujarat and Maharashtra of India, killing eight people and injuring 80 (two bombs were detonated in Malegaon, Maharashtra, killing seven). The BJP leaders Lal Krishna Advani and Narendra Modi were critical of the findings by Karkare which alleged terror activities by "Saffron Brigade". Karkare's wife, Kavita Karkare, refused to accept the monetary compensation announced by Narendra Modi.

He also worked in the R.A.W -- the India's external intelligence agency -- in Austria for seven years in a secret mission.He was one of the mastermind of cracking the IC879 hijacking case.

Pandabonium said...

I have nothing to add - either
stupid or wise - about the Mombai attacks. Thanks for the excellent observations, Mike.

I do have two items that may be of interest to readers...

Steve Alten, author of the novel "The Shell Game" was interviewed on Nov. 20th. - look for show #401 on the archive page. The book, which Mike reviewed on Amazon, is based on actual events of 911 and peak oil. Alten acknowledges the importance of 'Rubicon in shaping his views.

I bring this up because I think this book would make an excellent gift for family and friends who might not read Crossing the Rubicon, even if given to them. The book is an 'edge of your seat' read and perhaps a great way to get the important information from Rubicon across to people who have their head in the sand (we all know some of those, don't we?).

- Or better yet, give both books together.

Also, there is an excellent "Reality Report" interview on with Ben Gisin of Touch the Soil magazine. He talks in depth about the effect that the financial crisis is having on agriculture as well as issues of localizing food production and changing the economic paradigm in general. It is full of important information and ideas for individuals and communities seeking food security in these precarious times.

Pandabonium said...

I guess I did have something stupid to write about "Mombai". I meant Mumbai of course. :p

DanaJ said...

Just got around to reading your comments on recent events (I took a 'computer day off').
The following may be of interest:

US spies killed in terrorist raid

NEW DELHI: Even though the Indian government has refrained from dragging Islamabad directly into the Mumbai terror attacks, insinuations suggest that diplomatic relations between the two countries may suffer in the aftermath of the attacks. It is believed that the terrorists identified and then killed two senior US intelligence officers staying at the Taj Mahal Hotel. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, in his address to the nation, pricked Pakistan thrice without naming it. The security agencies in New Delhi told reporters they suspected the role of Al Qaeda in the attacks. The agencies believed their suspicion arose from the way the terrorists captured Taj hotel and successfully identified two senior US intelligence officials by checking the passports of the foreigners who were staying there, sources said. iftikhar gilani

The above URL and quote is from a Pakistani newspaper.

Article from Friday, November 28, by Julain E. Barns, L.A. Times:

Defense networks target of attack.

Talks about cyber-attacks possibly originating from Russia (Chechnya?)

Just thought you might find this of interest.
P.S. I still miss FTW.

Dana J.

The Renegade Painter said...

Could the October 08 US-India Nuclear Deal have any immediate implications for this situation? India has a definite strategic nuclear weapons advantage if the conflict between them and Pakistan were heightened.

F.Kamilov said...

The Mumbai drama may now be over, but it seems to have been a trial baloon released by "TPTB" for similar contingencies in the not-too-far-off future.

I want to go on record - mark these very words of mine, right here on this forum:
I am well-qualified to say this, and if I am here, I will guide you along as things develop.

Although there is little TPTB can do about Pakistan's sorry predicament, they will certainly have plans to mitigate this inevitable situation, because they themselves are near collapse and so want to have as little trouble as possible on their hands.

carbonbased said...

Iran executes IT expert who spied for Israel


One computer expert said: “Israel’s well-known technological skills can make its enemies’ systems highly transparent.”

carbonbased said...

"Armed police would not fire back..."

I read this as an unverified report - nothing more. However, I am skeptical about the ability of this number of perps being able to hold down the amount of territory they did, for the length of time they did. For me, there are huge pieces of the puzzle that are missing. Maybe this points to one major, or minor, piece. If I were pressed to say what my impression was during the first day, it would have initially been *incompetence & inexperience*, by police and military units.

It's something to ponder, at least.

NERDMANN said...

Isn't "Chechnya" really a proxy for the "Western Powers?" Aren't they supported by the US from bases in Kosovo?
Obama has stated that he wants to attack/bomb Pakistan. Brzezinski's M.O. is to use proxies to do his dirty work, is it not?

RG said...

I'd say something about russian officials' comments about the terrorst attacks, but since anonymous posting is not allowed here...
Some valuable information links between Russian FSB/KGB and terrorists can be found in A. Litvinienko's book.

Ž said...

Hello M&J.

First I apologize for not reading your posts more often, and I must confess, that regarding The crash and Peak oil I am very much a "Babe in the woods"...

The problem mainly is that in Europe (Slovenia, where I live) the talk of Peak oil is a more or less a side issue. Yes, there is an economic crisis wich is a consequence of american markets and banks being unstable. However, nobody talks about the reasons, the WHY, this is happening. And in my opinion, understanding the WHY is a basis for preparing for what comes next.

Rightfully, your observations and predictions (***) are based on American people and the effect this crisis will have on their/your life. But can you tell me where in this scenario(s) does Europe come in, and in what way (and to what extent) will this affect us?

Since US and Europe economies are tied closely together, the tidal wave is definitely coming our way. The question is how big? I would really apreciate your views on this and please, don't hold back. Give it to me raw and straight »between the eyes«, so to speak. I can take it 

Thank you both and Greetings,

Mr. Ziga Hauptman

(***) i hate this word – it sounds like I take you for a (mis)fortune-teller, wich I am not - but I am at a disatvantage regarding the use of English language

Peter J. Nickitas said...

This is another article from GATA.

The notion of asset reflation as a means out of the depression has a precedent in the fiat increase in the price of gold from $20.67 to $35.00 per ounce by FDR in 1933. Sprott and Solunac, the authors of the article from GATA, have a similar analysis to the 20 November 2008 prediction from Money & Markets' Larry Edelson that I posted earlier.

From GATA, it would also appear that the Chinese concur, and, not only with respect to precious metals, but to base metals as well. The Chinese want the materials on hand if and when industry starts up anew.

Question: what are the states of China's strategic petroleum reserve and her strategic granaries?

carbonbased said...

Is reality breaking through and into the war-machine complex?


America’s Defense Meltdown: Pentagon Reform for President Obama and the New Congress
(The Overburden of America’s Outdated Defenses) (A 271 pp. PDF file.)

Shorebreak said...

If I were an Indian official, I'd be looking at the events from a command/control perspective. That's primary, and Mike has already alluded to it. My suspiscion, based upon several known events, is that someone somewhere was controlling things "real time". At least during the initial execution of the plan.

Which takes us directly back to Mike's comments on SIGNIT and ELINT. If there was a CCIS (as Mike says - Google it!) element and it was run domestically, it could have been located anywhere. Otherwise, try a surface or sub-surface vessel to the east.

One thing that I would definitely be wary of is attempting to define the attackers by their tactics. Any combat instructor who can recognize a specific style of attack can also train others to duplicate that style.

The key to solving this is to follow up on the command/control element, and to examine the anomalies. For example, a captured attacker who claims Pak or Northern India origins isn't an anomaly. His confession must be considered part of the control. An anomaly would be reports of police not firing at exposed attackers. Or numerous ranking police officials shot as the attack unfolded. Or eye witness reports of white attackers.

Any one or the anomalies, or a combination of them, could be a key to understanding who was behind the attacks. But most importantly, review the SIGINT and ELINT data that was taken during the events. Signals leave a signature. If that data is missing (i.e. it wasn't collected by Indian signals intelligence during the events), that's another anomaly.

FTW admin said...

shorebreak and others who've gotten confused about similar issues:

re 'google it,' and other references:

that post was signed 'jo.' mike signs his posts 'mcr.'

Dennis from Oregon said...

Mike, I would like to say I believe you are missing a major point regarding the financial aspects of this attack.

Yes, there will be financial repurcussions, and the longer India stays in turmoil the worse they will be.

I think you are missing how this dovetails with the Cloward-Piven Strategy, and as such there is a very definate agenda, and plan for the attacks in India. Perhaps you are aware of its existance and just havnt made the connection??

The goal is for the collapse of capitalism. It may behoove you to understand by whom..

I know that is a big claim, but before you comment please google up "Cloward-Piven" and who advocates such an action, and take a close look at "ACORN", not that ACORN has any direct bearing on the events in India, but is illustative of the players advocating Cloward-Piven. Pay close attention to the President elect and the cabinet being assembled..

It should prove quite illuminating...

Its all going right on plan too..

Ivan said...

Dennis from Oregon: Are you referring to the Bail-out-a-thon? It did seem rather interesting that there was a massive drive to turn into public ownership of many many defunct and/or private entities.

The thought is that as the government falls off the face of the earth from insolvency/collapse, all of these now publicly owned entities are in the free and clear.

If you will, it is the idea of Uncle Sam collecting everybody's ticking grenades onto himself, so he can jump on them, saving the rest of the tribe from destruction.

Ruiz said...

"reports on Friday said all Russian citizens were released unharmed"

Hmmm....Russians releasing their own, or Chechens biting their tongues and releasing the enemy?

Dennis from Oregon said...

No Ivan, I am not..

I am reffering to a strategy to destroy Western capitalism.

I am also suggesting that google is your friend.

Sometimes the truth is so out there that you will immediately dismiss it offhand unless you get it from your own sources, by your own efforts..

What I am suggesting is a tie between the current managed collapse of capitalism as expressed by the Cloward-Piven Strategy which dovetails very neatly with the likely devastating effects the attack on India will have on our multinational corporations.

Pretty much anything that destroys the current system is just part of the ultimate goal of Cloward-Piven, which is just a blueprint to destroy western capitalism...

The planned destruction is going well too...

Read up on the plan...

Google is your friend...

Mary said...

Are the Mumbai attacks the pretext for the further destabilization of Pakistan in an effort to redraw the map of the middle east according to the following map?

why? this map would ensure Western control of the vast majority of remaining reserves in the middle east. one puppet government in "Arab Shia state" and your on the pigs back.

This ex CIA agent Robert Baer talks about a possible new strategy with Iran through negotiations; of course this would be enormously beneficial to Iran where her regional Hegemony is recognized as long as she "plays ball" with TPTB

just some ramblings..

Emanuel said...


I was fascinated by many of the "Cloward-Piven strategy" links I found when I googled it. Many years ago when I was a left-identified activist in the San Francisco Bay Area, I read Cloward and Piven's book, "Poor People's Movements." Here's a link:

In it they discussed how in the 70s they organized poverty-stricken communities to take over welfare offices (literally occupy them) and demand their full legal benefits before they would leave. It was a sit-in/civil disobedience strategy similar to ones used in the civil rights movement. They talk in the book about how it worked amazingly well, but after achieving great success, the poor communities started bureaucratizing themselves too. They would elect leaders to negotiate with government welfare officers, rather than stage sit-ins. Over time the leaders got corrupt and once again benefits were being denied to qualified, poor people left and right.

The conclusion reached by the authors was that capitalism co-opts all movements eventually, and the only time that real change gets made (at least in the modern world) is when non-violent, civil disobedience tactics are used.

I liked the book back then when I read it (this was 1995 or so). I don't recall them ever discussing "creating crises," especially not crises like the one's we are seeing around the world now. It is very interesting to see how some people have spun this into some kind of grand leftist conspiracy. Having been deeply involved in left activism for many years in the epicenter of radicalism (berkeley/sf), I can say the left is completely disorganized, and filled mostly with ideological youth who have no understanding of world events. And while many of the self-styled, punk "anarchists" may be happy to see "capitalism" teetering on the edge, I doubt they have anything to do with any of the crises currently happening in the world. (And incidentally, I no longer identify as "left," whatever that even means anymore.)


NB Patton said...

Check out this article on Iceland, there is a mention of a call to join the EU and start using the euro.
Queue the Alex Jones Ministry of Misinfo. I can hear it now; "Iceland's top government officials have been body snatched by shape shifting Jewish lizard money changers."



The economic meltdown has stirred a longing for more security among traditionally go-it-alone Icelanders.

Polls show a majority backing EU accession and adoption of the euro, forcing eurosceptic Haarde to promise another look into the merits of joining."

NB Patton said...

"Of the billions of searches carried out on the portal,, over the last year, Mr Obama was third behind Spears and World Wrestling Entertainment."

As the fat, lazy, and content American genuinely asks with sorrow filled eyes "why does the world hate us?" seconds before they loose all interest and change the channel to catch Dancing with the Stars.

stu said...

I don't know if anybody saw "The Next Nostradamus" on the History Channel last night. Its a great program that looks at Dr. Bruce Buena de Mesquita's mathmatical algorithim that is used to predict outcomes. Its quite interesting especially when relating it to MCR's map. Buena de Mesquita has worked with the CIA and his area of experise is game theroy. According to the program, his predictions are right appx. 90% of the time. His current outlook for the US is grim and is about the closest thing you'll see to the MSM talking about the decline of the American Empire. It re-airs on Saturday December 6th at 5:00 p.m. Let me know what some of you thought if you saw it, or when you do see it.

fusion_is_fundemental said...

The Renegade Painter said...
"Could the October 08 US-India Nuclear Deal have any immediate implications for this situation? India has a definite strategic nuclear weapons advantage if the conflict between them and Pakistan were heightened."

No one has an advantage in nuclear conflicts. If the leaders or their advisers believe they do then they are literaly insane.

fusion_is_fundemental said...

one thing that comes up is "Child Care Information Services"? Is that it?

ok seriously here is some help for all these damn acronyms