Thursday, November 20, 2008

MCR wrote:


I have not checked out the site mentioned in one of the comments and I won't. As I have always said, "Buy nothing but tangible, physical gold bullion that stays in your close possession and is accessible."

The key here is not where you buy, but what you buy. Are you buying gold bullion for guaranteed-insured delivery within x days? I wouldn't accept any wait longer than four weeks if I was placing an order. To be honest though, the current situation might well justify a wait of up to eight weeks if all other standards are met. Of course, the simplest thing is where you go visit a local vendor, see the gold, buy it, and walk out with it. I happen to be a fan of doing business locally. (Ahem!)

I do not understand the meaning of "tax free" Venezuelan coins. Gold isn't taxed in the U.S. If you mean buy without sales tax, that's not difficult and can be done in many ways, very legally. Whether a coin is Venezuelan, South African, U.S., Canadian or Swiss makes no difference. Venezuela is a gold producing country. The only thing that matters is, "Is it .999 Fine?" I happen to like Canadian Maple Leaves and I pay extra for them, but it's not necessary.

The web site may be OK, or it may not. Sorry, I don't do that kind of research for people. I have never seen a simple, straight forward position of mine so fernargulated and overanalyzed.

1. Want gold.
2. Find gold.
3. Make sure it is all gold. (Not plate or less than .999 Fine)
4. Pay for gold.
5. Walk out with gold.


Steps 1-4 ditto.
5. Deal with reputable broker who can insure and guarantee delivery (usually via Insured/Registered U.S. Mail which is very solid.)

All we can do is pray for whoever it is on the other side of the Looking Glass that laments about his paper gold and then wants to go back and play in the same paradigm that is being flushed down the toilet in front of his eyes. I have never owned a publicly-traded stock in my life and I cannot imagine that I ever will. The Titanic is sinking and I can see no reason to invest is a boiler, a wireless...or even a stateroom!

By Christmas, things should be pretty much unglued altogether. How many pieces will have fallen remains to be seen. All we are watching now is the stitching being pulled out. And and I predict that this will be a New Year's Eve that none of us will ever, ever forget. I hope I wind up with someone special on that night... But then there's always my buddy Rags.

JO wrote:

Kruggerands are heavier than other bullion products because they're alloyed with a stronger metal to make the coin more durable. But they still contain an ounce of gold.

To the person who asked, in essence, which was more important to have, food or gold:

We'll dispense with the obligatory admonition about King Midas. You sound desperate. Only a person in a heightened state of anxiety would ask total strangers about your own unique, personal circumstances.

In other words, only you know precisely how much food and other essentials you have access to as well as how much 'shiny shit' as one commenter so pithily put it.

While perhaps leaving you at a loss temporarily, it should ultimately empower you to realize this.


Rice Farmer said...

Yemen is toast

saoirse said...

Perhaps this may be slightly off topic from the gold issue (also for ‘gold in your hand’, plain and simple) ~

I think it’s the religion thing that keeps popping up which concerns me. Why can't we move past this already? We all hold our own spiritual beliefs which vary greatly! There is no right and wrong...personally I’m very against organized religion and could go into quite a discourse on that. I’m spiritual though…

The thing that’s a little strange for me in the States is the fact that State and Church are still so connected in politics. This is so outmoded, unreliable, and problematic when representing such a variety of people. The other comment I have, and please don’t take this the wrong way- but I feel that patriotism is pushed too much in America. I’m not saying you shouldn’t be patriotic- but for some people it’s a blind patriotism…and if not balanced it’s something that shuts out the ability to criticize- therein lies the danger. So, really...I don’t like nationalism too much, especially these days when the issue is no longer ‘every person/nation for themselves’, but rather, ‘everyone is in it together’.

Getting back to this shaky future that we face...yes, it’s so heavy. Of course, there are many people who have been dying and are already living in this dark Pre and Peak Oil world- and for quite a while now. We are just about to personally join that macrocosm very swiftly! I suppose it’s about time…and in a certain way; this financial crisis is good if it ends up changing the world dramatically and directly. The planet can’t sustain this plundering of the environment, and we haven’t really done much in the last 15 years (when the critical call started to come out): so perhaps it will take something drastic like this to save the planet. I just can’t help thinking that this financial crisis is planned by world leaders in order to eliminate population- that in fact they know how dire the situation is, and know that very immediate action must be taken. It’s just makes me ill that those in charge of pillaging, are the ones best set-up to survive!

This blog is a real life line (especially when so many still have their head in the sand) and the most heart-wrenching is the thought of being disconnected from here. Sometimes I feel like there should be an exchange of addresses, so depending on what happens you can say…’hey, if you’re in trouble- come to my place in France- Canada- States- Uk-New Caledonia -etc..’-Anyway, guess that’s not so realistic, is it? Thanks again to Mike (big hug), Jenna, and all the bloggers on here- really keeps the spirit hopeful~

Russ said...

I'm wondering about a practical difficulty regarding gold during the energy descent.
If our premises are that hyperinflation or federal default will destroy the dollar, and as in the 30s the government will seek to confiscate gold, then it follows that gold will be usable only on the black market.
But if you don't already have an established and relatively secure place in the underworld, then how do you use gold as currency without attracting robbers like flies? (After all, everyone would know he could rob you with impunity, since you as a criminal gold-hoarder wouldn't be able to go to the police.)

Hikikomori said...

Two guys, before jumping out of a sinking ship, decided to take away with them something valuable. One took a bag of gold, the other -- a bag of burgers.

They jumped out, the ship sank down and they swam to the nearest island, which happened to be uninhabited.

After having some rest they felt hungry. The guy with bag of burgers took out one and started to eat. The other one asked him: How much is one burger?

One burger is one bag of gold, he replied.

What a wild prices here...

Everything in this world is relative. If, in the worst case scenario, there would be food supply shortages on the market, how much would you pay for that little of food which still would be available there? But if you'd be a food supplier or producer -- you could not only survive quite easily, but you could also make a profit.

Gold and all kinds of money are only means of conservation and exchange of relative value. If the value of what you need rises, you have to pay more or otherwise you'll not get it. Simple. In the event of disaster people do not need gold. They need safety, food, shelter, medicine, hope and other basic things like that. So, IMHO, if you would be able to produce and/or supply such things when they would be greatly valued, you would produce a great value, not just spend on it what you conserved earlier.

A few years ago it was hard to believe the things that Mike wrote. For many -- impossible. Now when the dark clouds finally covered our skies and started to rain, many more started to listen and think. But even now most of them still hope that it's nothing more than just another big storm, just another recession, just another depression and that eventually everything should come back to normal, as usual.

May be, or may be not...

The rain had eventually stopped and Noah with his family and all stuff came out of their ark and started life from scratch, in a different world, where all those who didn't believe the truth about future had been gone...

What would you do if you would see him building his ark again?..

Phlutor said...

Just a muse...

Why is gold considered so valuable as an investment? Why not coyote shit? Who decides? And when will "they" decide that coyote shit is more valuable than gold?

Of course, gold IS prettier than coyote shit. And it doesn't smell as bad.

This is all simply speculative for me, of course. I can barely afford to buy food and gas and pay my bills, much less invest in gold.

People will always value food, so I'll stick with food, thanks.

For what it's worth...

MitchK said...

Hello Mike,

Long time lurker and reader of Rubicon. First I'd like to give a heartfelt thanks for all that you and Jenna and your colleagues have done. Rubicon is probably the single most influential and life-changing book I've ever read. Thank you!

Before I check the local library or or google, can you elaborate a bit on "3. Make sure it is all gold. (Not plate or less than .999 Fine)"?

I'm referring to a local, in-person purchase. I understand about finding a reputable dealer, but "caveat emptor" is still a good policy.

I know about fool's gold (painted lead?), and I've seen the trick in movies where a peasant will bite a gold coin on receipt, presumably to verify that it's soft like gold should be. And my wedding band is 18K gold, whatever that means. But that's the extent of my knowledge.


Roark said...

When you:

1) Want gold.
2) Find gold.
3) Buy gold.
4) Walk away with gold.

I suggest:
5) Make sure you're with someone big and strong because sometimes when a large qty is involved during step 4 (above), someone gets a tip and the next thing ya know, the person buying the gold gets beaten up and needless to say, robbed!

This is just what I've been told by a friend who has heard of this sort of thing happening so!

As the saying goes:
Buyer Beware!

Anonymous said...

For those who are staying away from gold, I can understand from a finance perspective if you have a choice between food for the next 3 - 6 months of gold. That's a no-brainer. Gold won't put food into our bellies when none is available or the market isn't condusive to paying with gold.

I'm in the middle - I can afford to stock up on food - and I can spare some for a little bit of gold. I agree with those who say "why is gold worth more than x, y, or z?" But the fact is that gold IS worth more, regardless of why.

So, I'll buy gold and when the dollar tanks I'll sell it and try to scoop up a few acres of land and some other necessities. That's all. I'm looking at it as a short term tool in the midst of collapse to help leverage my large family out of the suburbs. We liquidated our properties at the height of the market and now we lease, so we're leaps and bounds ahead of where we would be if we weren't keeping our finger on the pulse. But we still look forward to using our understanding to get ahead of the dollar collapse and be prepared to buy up whatever we can, if the opportunity presents itself.

That's the strategy that our enemies have been employing for a few centuries. I'm simply following their game and taking steps to benefit from them and keep the land in OUR hands rather than leaving it available to them.

Also, I sincerely advise everyone who wants a clear understanding of policy and planning in the next months and years to watch the following links. I've also linked a pdf copy of Brzezinsky's "The Grand Chessboard" to use as a guide for the video clips. Pay close attention to the maps and drawings - especially showing plans from 1997 for encroachment on Russia. The objectives have all been achieved in the last 10 years, with the exception of China.

Here are the links:
The men behind Barack Obama part 1
The men behind Barack Obama part 2
The Grand Chessboard - Brzezinski

NB Patton said...

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Citigroup Inc shares tumbled for a fifth straight day, as Chief Executive Vikram Pandit tried to downplay speculation the banking giant might sell major businesses to restore its health and investor confidence.

This is the longest crescendo ever, just CRASH already! ;)

businessman said...

saoirse...Thanks for your post and I'm off the subject after this one. I had been holding off on making that post while seeing all of the other posts on the same subject in here, and then when Michael mentioned his own opinion on it on the front page, I decided to go ahead and make the post.

But it's time to get back to the more important subjects that we normally talk about in here now.

saoirse said...

I thought what you said about your experience with the Catholic religion (and the sometimes ambiguous sources of reference) was interesting. I suppose I was just referring to various comments(and the world in general) about whether we believe, whether we are religious, too religious or not enough. Nevertheless, I won't say anymore on the subject either- but I guess my other post was just a late response...

gildone84 said...

Regarding gold confiscation, here's FTW's take:

NB Patton said...

"Markets shot higher around 3 p.m. when NBC news reported that Timothy Geithner, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, would be nominated as U.S. Treasury secretary, driving the Dow and the S&P up more than 6 percent."

Okay MCR, FTW, so remember that "change" the people of this faux republic elected this president for (and we all hoped would, but knew wouldn't happen)?

So here it is, point blank and in our faces. The psychological real estate we conquered, has just been threatened!

I know I'm not speaking for everyone here, but to me, the very act of NOMINATING a president of any Federal Reserve Bank to Sec-Treasury coupled with Obama's history is proof enough for me to light the torches, grab the pitchforks and march on the castle! I don't buy the notion that Timothy Geithner is valuable because he knows how to fly the 747. I would rather have someone in the seat who has the ability to look out the cockpit and say, "Gee golly would you look at that, we are in a nose dive!" Whoever flew the planes into the buildings on 9/11 new all the switches and dials and knobs and levers, how well did that turn out?

Frankly at this point I'm tired of the notion that we aren't "giving him a chance". WHAT MORE PROOF DO WE NEED that he is EXACTLY what we have suspected?

If someone stands in front of you, telling you how much he wants to help you, while slowly loading a revolver, closing the cylinder, cocking the hammer, taking aim,... At what point do you stop believing his words and take action to protect yourself from the impending danger you can clearly see for yourself, regardless of rhetoric or promises?

What now? Do we march? Do we picket? Do we load magazines? Do we saturate gasoline with Styrofoam? I don't know about you guys but I'm sick and tired of helplessly watching the rape of my fellow countrymen and the core values we all hold near and dear.
Maybe its just me, but I am good and ready to heave some boxes of tea into the drink!

What would be the modern day equivalent? Not paying income taxes? How "committed" are we? Just enough to mouth off on some blog?

Damn it am I alone?!!?

Andrew_The_Fox said...

Citi most likely will receive government assistance because they're "Too Big to Fail".

I wonder what's going to happen with that in the next month or so.

DarkNetz said...

I've been an avid follower of the blog since it's inception. Given the depth and breadth of recent comments, I believe it is time that the administrators consider moving beyond this blog towards a more powerful CMS (content management system) such as a forum. I think it would give the admins a lot more tools at their disposal such as moderation, flagging, banning, etc. It would be a lot more scalable and flexible than what is currently available on Blogger.

If money is an issue, I would recommend signing up with a free hosting company like Plus, there are many Open Source projects on on the left hand side under Forums. All projects are easy to install that any internet amateur can figure out or quick internet searches can yield the answers to go about.

While I know there are plenty of other forums on Peak Oil, I would rather be a part of a community where Mike, Jenna, or even Rice Farmer are the active administrators.

businessman said...

Thanks for the follow-up comment saoirse...

gildone84...Thanks for giving us the link to that FTW article by Jamey Hecht. I read it when it was originally published a few years ago, and it's even more relevant to us now with what we're facing.

And NB Patton...I think Thomas Paine himself would be proud of your most recent posting...:)

Anonymous said...


I like your parable about the sinking ship, and your point is certainly well taken. However, isn't this the attitude that got us into trouble in the first place? Whatever happened to simply exchanging equal value for equal value? Or did it ever exist?

Wouldn't it be cool if we exchanged goods and services as freely as we exchange ideas and opinions?

My greatest hope is that the lack of access to credit might disrupt status quo thinking enough to begin to dislodge this silly, useless idea of "profit", where one expects to get more for what one offers without working any harder for it.

Then again, the Ferengi "Rules of Acquisition" are pretty deeply entrenched in capitalism. I have a feeling that it would take a pretty solid kick in the collective unconscious to begin to pry that particular paradigm loose.

To quote from an email I got recently: "He who dies with the most toys is still dead". When do you suppose we'll get that one through our plutonium-laced skulls?

Here's to the dim, distant hope for creating a "steady-state" economy...