Tuesday, November 18, 2008

HOLD ON TO YOUR GOLD

CONFIRMATION OF WHAT WE ALREADY KNEW

Right now, if you can get any pure gold and walk away with it for as much as $300 over the spot price I'd do it. This story all but screams that a monstrous breakout is on the way. And the economic news is all bad and seemingly in high gear.

http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=47994
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49N5VU20081118?sp=true

-- MCR
***************************************************************************

On the gold front, the New York Post's John Crudele continues his one man media crusade (with the alliance of GATA) to uncover the machinations of the gold cartel.

The disconnect between the suppressed price of bullion and the shortage of products requires an acknowledgment of manipulation or a flight from reality, a suspension of one's knowledge of the laws of supply and demand.

Northwest Territorial Mint has added new phone lines to deal with the deluge of calls, in addition to lacing its over-the-phone contract as well as its website with new provisos such as the following:

The US Mint has again announced production delays and rationing (emphasis, the blog's) for silver American Eagles. We will continue to ship silver Eagles from our stock when they arrive from the US Mint, but in order to expedite delivery will need to ship dates of our choice. These orders may experience significant delays (about which your bullion sales representative will tell you), but you can be confident that all trades locked in will be shipped expeditiously as we receive supply of product from the US Mint. For those of you who wish to ensure a place in the queue, we will continue to lock in trades at our low premiums over spot.

Kitco offers similar cautionary statements.

Franklin Saunders' The Money-Changer seems the most flexible of the three although it is also elusive by phone.

--JO

20 comments:

Carlos said...

Recession - the domino effect (UK)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-domino-effect-road-to-recession-1012202.html

The chain of events - which began with salesmen on commission wildly dishing out sub-prime mortgages (to poor people the United States who did not even have to prove they had the earnings to repay them) and ended with Jackie Horn losing her job - is a long one. I have spent the past few weeks tracing each link in that chain through the stories of a series of people:

* The fall-off in demand for Chemix's products was the result of decisions like the one made by a Birmingham newsagent whose domestic economizing including not having his windows replaced with uPVC frames because his cigarette sales were down.

* Cigarette sales at the newsagent's had fallen because staff at the nearby Range Rover production plant had had their hours cut.

* Range Rover sales are down because a wide variety of businesses are now tightening their belts; not replacing company cars is an obvious money saver.

* Among the businesses not replacing company cars as part of general cost cutting are those like the shop-fitting, sign-writing and advertising firms employed by retail giant Marks & Spencer, which has had two-thirds wiped from the value of its shares this year.

* Trade in shops is down because consumer confidence has fallen in line with catastrophic drops in the price of shares.

* Share market volatility was provoked by the sudden refusal of the banks to lend money to anyone, including each other.

* The crisis of confidence within the banks was fed by the collapse of Lehman Brothers, which was the biggest bankruptcy the world has ever seen.

To make sense of this saga I set out to travel the United Kingdom speak to individuals who had played a key part in each stage of the tumbling of the dominoes. There were repeated surprises along the way. Encounters with the real world are like that. Not everything turns out as you might expect.

NB Patton said...

I wish I could, just too expensive.
I will continue to invest in copper, lead, and brass.


*Reminder!:
There is a nationwide rally to call for the end of centralized banking in America, on Saturday November 22, 2008.

http://endthefed.us/

lengeo said...

Would things not be better served if the devaluation of the US dollar was allowed to take a natural course. I am amazed that the G19 are not screaming for this to happen? How long can the inevitable be denied?

Shorebreak said...

To those investing in non-gold metals - FYI: Buyer beware.

Gold is the only prescious metal that's used as a monetary valuation instrument. Silver, copper, and other metals may fluctuate in tandem with gold during the course of notrmal market fluctuations, but they cannot be relied upon as a shelter in the event of a currency crisis. They are commodities.

In a crisis, if dollar valuation plummets and gold soars, don't expect commodities to respond favorably. If gold prices are too steep for your budget, you're better off buying gold jewelry from a pawn shop than you are buying silver from a distributor.

Los Doggies said...

I am interested in other specific supplies and materials that may be useful in the post-peak world. People have mentioned stocking canned foods. What else (specifically) is good? any links to these items would be nice too. maybe links to other sites that have this kind of info as well. thanks.

D! said...

Shorebreak -

Silver has been used as currency longer than gold, furthermore in a crisis who the fuck is going to be trading gold around like in the current market mechanics? I agree with Rawles that gold will be too expensive to deal with on a person-to-person basis, except usage in major transactions. Because not everyone can AFFORD gold. You're fortune telling, pointless. Don't expect things to go smoothly in a time of crisis - there are no certainties :) I actually urge people to resist against the reinstatement of stupid and oppressive cycles of wealth being calculated by perceived intrinsic values of shiny shit - that is HOW WE GOT HERE. If we keep exalting the "value" of shiny shit the longer we perpetuate the oppression of people as a whole - which I am adamantly opposed to and so would most people that aren't just looking out for #1. All the talk of "precious" metals is so counterproductive of reconstructing a healthy society I can't believe it keeps finding a home on a blog that believes in its near-total restructuring. Instead of actually pursuing a topic of REAL progress we are consumed here with the machinations of ancient and failed ideologies.

Sorry, I am just tired of the lack of REAL progressive thought happening here and in the country as a whole. There is no reason that we should keep accepting the paradigms of the past, continual failure seems to be the underlying (perhaps subconscious) ambition of the greedy and short-sighted.

Here we are, concerned people, but only concerned with trying to resume business as usual in the face of impending collapse. Does anyone else not see how awful concerning ourselves with "wealth" in it's antiquated forms really is? Wake up people, you are being faced with the single greatest challenge to ever face this species and you are still concerning yourself with the value of shiny shit. If you really look into yourself and find that this crisis makes you worry about your shiny shit so much I could happily count you in the ranks of the 80% excess of this planets carrying capacity.

"Insanity is repeating the same actions over and over again expecting different results."

I heard that on a video once, and I believed him because it makes sense. Where is that uncompromising reason now?


D!

btw> does mike have photo studio on the westside?

FTW admin said...

di, agree with your overriding message. the shiny shit is only a practical solution towards interim survival.

FTW admin said...

alpenglow foods wrote:

Jenna,

I posted this yesterday knowing that some of the links were
counterproductive,
expecting them to be removed. Was there something else wrong with the
post,
causing it to be rejected? I am more than willing to edit what I
wrote, this Blog
is all about constructive communication.
After viewing zeitgeist a second time it became clearer how distorted,
fragmented,
and unconvincing it is, plus the quality is worse than poor! Mike's
inclusion was
too short, & did nothing for the cause!

Thanks for your hard work,

Entered as a Blog post on 11,17,08

We can speculate about Jesus,
who/what He was, when his
expression/force found substance;
the point is he was/is a positive
force of forgiveness/Love!
Lets not get bogged down with petty
details. Our drive is to prepare
ourselves, & those around us for the
"New Age", which is going to be
painful, even for those who are
prepared!

The old expression is Agape, the
new one is the positive aspect of
Amae.
No man is an island. The idea
that My way is right, therefore
yours must be wrong, will just
isolate you among a lot of angry
forces!
Anything expressed as radical,
extreme, or aggressive,will
generate a negative response!

HERE ARE SOME SITES I
WOULD RECOMMEND:

http://combatingracism.newsvine.com/

Civility, to temper Radical Honesty,you
know we are not all intellectually
enlightened, or emotionally stable;
untempered RH can be bad for your
health, if the other is armed!

http://nearing.newsvine.com/

Re read SLOWLY, THANKS to
Ricefarmer: Note the part about
Ethnic Cleansing.

http://countercurrents.org/

Colin Turnbull's book mentioned in
#12,is "Mountain People" which
describes the breakdown we could
go through, I have read the book,
Selfishness becomes a way of life!

A NOTE TO Businessman:
The IK could not protect anything,
they goarged when they had, &
Starved when they didn't. Remember
Colin disliked the IK, how much did
this affect his objectivity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Turnbull

Now a movie to watch, about Money,
& some of the lies we have been told!

DISCLAMER: Anyone who believes
everything is a FOOL, Think- Question
everything, if they distort the pentagon
attack, what can you trust?!

FTW admin said...

alpenglow foods wrote:

Jenna,

I posted this yesterday knowing that some of the links were
counterproductive,
expecting them to be removed. Was there something else wrong with the
post,
causing it to be rejected? I am more than willing to edit what I
wrote, this Blog
is all about constructive communication.
After viewing zeitgeist a second time it became clearer how distorted,
fragmented,
and unconvincing it is, plus the quality is worse than poor! Mike's
inclusion was
too short, & did nothing for the cause!

Thanks for your hard work,

Entered as a Blog post on 11,17,08

We can speculate about Jesus,
who/what He was, when his
expression/force found substance;
the point is he was/is a positive
force of forgiveness/Love!
Lets not get bogged down with petty
details. Our drive is to prepare
ourselves, & those around us for the
"New Age", which is going to be
painful, even for those who are
prepared!

The old expression is Agape, the
new one is the positive aspect of
Amae.
No man is an island. The idea
that My way is right, therefore
yours must be wrong, will just
isolate you among a lot of angry
forces!
Anything expressed as radical,
extreme, or aggressive,will
generate a negative response!

HERE ARE SOME SITES I
WOULD RECOMMEND:

http://combatingracism.newsvine.com/

Civility, to temper Radical Honesty,you
know we are not all intellectually
enlightened, or emotionally stable;
untempered RH can be bad for your
health, if the other is armed!

http://nearing.newsvine.com/

Re read SLOWLY, THANKS to
Ricefarmer: Note the part about
Ethnic Cleansing.

http://countercurrents.org/

Colin Turnbull's book mentioned in
#12,is "Mountain People" which
describes the breakdown we could
go through, I have read the book,
Selfishness becomes a way of life!

A NOTE TO Businessman:
The IK could not protect anything,
they goarged when they had, &
Starved when they didn't. Remember
Colin disliked the IK, how much did
this affect his objectivity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Turnbull

Now a movie to watch, about Money,
& some of the lies we have been told!

DISCLAMER: Anyone who believes
everything is a FOOL, Think- Question
everything, if they distort the pentagon
attack, what can you trust?!

Shorebreak said...

d!,

The difference between you and I seems to be our expectations and perception, not our desired goals.

For example, your expectation appears to be that the current construct will be abandoned and that finding refuge in some elements of it is futile. I wish you were correct. So help me God, I do.

But the bitter reality that I need to face is that we're not facing a complete breakdown. We're facing a controlled paradigm shift in global economics - whose goal is the implementation of a single global system. That calculated shift is being carried out by the same orchestrators who are currently in control of central banks around the world.

This system is being implemented now, regardless of the fact that you or I would prefer to see a new construct, separate from the control of the corporate globalists. I can work every day to begin a new paradign outside of the current constraints, but in order to do so I'm going to have to move to some sort of commune or become Amish or something else like that. Outside of separation from society, things will be getting progressively worse.

Here's reality: As sole provider for 7 mouths to feed, clothe, house, educate, etc I can do all of the "virtual" creating of a new paradigm that I want. I could pack up the family, quit my day job, find a piece of forest with some tillable soil, and build a cabin. Maybe I'd find a way to get free fabric to make winter coats.

Or.... I can stare reality in the face and say "these bastards f-tards can kiss my ass. I'm not a media-conditioned SOB whose waiting for the current "trend" to cycle back. I know that corporatists are running this thing and as long as they're dealing the cards, I'm going to keep my family fed and sheltered."

That, my friend, is the reality of having to be responsible for more than just myself. It forces you to look beyond your hopes and perception. You find yourself making decisions that aren't your primary preference.

In my shoes, one of my decisions is based upon knowledge that we're not facing collapse. We're facing a calculated crash. Gold as a monetary instrument will remain significant, whether we like it or not. And silver - which is not currently an international currency tool, is marketed as a commodity only.

Do I like those facts? No. I'm in agreement with you. But.... does it make any sense whatsoever to ignore those facts when I understand the nature of the upcoming crash? In my shoes, how could I?

And to be really honest, far from facing collapse, in the near future I suspect that we're facing outright tyranny. Our current lame duck has laid the legal foundation for it. His successor is guided on policy by those who laid the foundation for the Bush doctrine. Make no mistake - the soil has already been prepared and the seeds have been sewn for military takeover within US borders.

Progressive ideas are always worthy of consideration, but reality takes precedence over ideas. You can't raise and protect a family on ideas.

Rice Farmer said...

"Whatever you do, don't buy Sears"
http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/17/news/companies/kapner_sears.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008111811

Will another American icon bite the dust?

businessman said...

I don't think any discussion about preserving whatever financial resources someone has is counterproductive. If you preserve your resources better you'll have more resources when everything hits the fan. And I think there are very few people who would prefer to have less resources than more resources at that time.

Silver has been used as money throughout the ages, all the way back to Biblical times. In the United States both gold and silver were regularly used as money until the late 1800s, when the powers that be banned the use of silver for transactions over $5.00. Gold was the money of the elite and silver the money of the working class. So I have to believe that if gold becomes regularly utilized as money again in commerce, that something, probably silver, will be needed to make change for it. A one ounce gold coin is worth $738.00 today (at the spot price), and most of our daily transactions are for far less money than that price. So change in transactions will need to be made available in some form of value besides gold.

NB Patton said...

Shorebreak,
Thanks for the tip, I think.

I agree that humans have historically placed an enormously irrational and emotional value on gold throughout history and it would be a sound investment until(if) we grow up as a species. Probably a geologic time scale here. :(

Regarding my taste in "precious metals":
You didn't get it...

Regarding your monetary philosophy:
You said: "Gold is the only prescious metal that's used as a monetary valuation instrument."

I enthusiastically disagree! Yak shit could be used as currency if people agreed to use it for the trade of goods and services.

And what is a "monetary valuation instrument" anyway? I challenge the vary notion of such a thing, unless you are referring to the the human mind.

Sure I support Ron Paul, but I don't ENTIRELY agree that we should return to the gold standard. True, it would be A ZILLION times better than what we have now but we would still be tied to a hoardable, rare rock that has little to no functional value (save for maybe its superconductivity or as a fantastic paper weight).

The real value that backs any currency is the good faith, hard work, and assets of the society that represents it. To make it work you need a system in place that will keep the correct amount of currency in circulation to facilitate the "needs" of the economy. That is one of the reasons the Fed Reserve System is SO evil, because it purports to do just that but has much more self serving and sinister goals. Hey, its kinda like most religion come to think of it. You know, based on the idea of spirituality but is really all about the corruption of it, to control the masses? Now don't get your panties in a bunch, I didn't say ALL religion and any person who is truly "Christ" like, is a MUCH better person than I! You will know them by their fruits.

But I digress;
The monetary system I speak of is not a fairy tale, it can and HAS existed. Colonial Scrip and Tally Sticks are just a couple of famous examples.
Oh, and btw gold is a commodity.
_______________________

To: D!,
Great post,
Although I agree with your overall philosophy. I also must admit that having gold after TSHTF might just save your life. In that environment, if people are willing to treat anything as a currency, it'll be gold; It is my opinion that this is the basis of their interest.

Now if you follow my philosophy on precious metals, you can trade with them, you can catch dinner with them, and you can protect/defend with them. Not only does the lead/copper/brass combo have trade value, it also has functional value.

____________________

Shorebreak,
As I was typing this message I refreshed and read your reply. A great post I find no fault with! Sadly, I agree with your idea about what we are facing. But I still think my precious metals have more "real" value.

__________________________

Buisnessman;
Straight up yo.


*Dismounts the soap box*

Los Doggies said...

If you are going to invest in gold, why not invest in some other things first that will directly help you? i am having trouble getting good info on items that would be good in a post peak world. it's a tough thought experiment to predict what we'll actually need if the economy and infrastructure totally break down. we don't have much money here but we want to prepare and invest what we do have in some good gear. any suggestions and especially specific information would greatly help. here's some items to consider: anything solar powered (flashlights, power supplies, communications, heater) - does anyone have experience with solar power generators? is it better to get equipment with solar power onboard (solar rechargeable batteries?) or a generator to run common electrical gear? there's a lot of solar stuff out there and it's hard to decipher what would actually be a good investment. besides that, good sleeping bags, candles, matches, water - i have a well but it must use electric to pump - can this be converted to solar or other method? also, some method of transportation, farming stuff, cooking gear...it's a lot to think about but seems more immediate and important than converting dollars to gold unless i can get a better deal buying these things with gold.

Bonnie said...

This sounds like financial planning for the new paradigm. :)
Not a bad thing to do at all. Just different thinking.

I agree there will be a need for a medium of exchange when the new economy rises from the ashes if collapse does occur.(It does not necessarily have to)

So my question is this: Is there a minimum of gold or silver one should accumulate, or begin accumulating? Should we even consider the profit motive when accumulating? Is it more important to have food and essentials before buying gold?

My husband and I are fortunate in that we have a paid for plot of land with a large garden and livable house and no debt. But we have no back up power like solar etc.

Well that's more than one question, but would love to get your ideas.

Thanks,
B

Satori33 said...

Dear Mike (& those in the know),

My broker pretty much laughed me off the other day when I approaced them about buying gold. Like you always say, not everyone will be saved, and those people who cling inflexibly to the neoclassical economic paradigm of endless growth will undoubtedly make up that majority. As one who does NOT want to be counted among them, what are some suggestions for buying gold?

I know you've said physical gold is best, but does that mean pure bullion, or coins like American Eagles, or S. African Kruggerands is the way to go, or is a diversified portfolio, invested in a wide array of commodities more appropriate? Obviously I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket, but gold is certainly something I want to invest in now, before market suppresion can no longer curtail demand. Is this even possible at this point? Help!!!

RayLeeUS said...

I wouldn't presume to answer all the questions raised here, but on the basic issue of gold investment there seems to be a lot of over-thinking going on. If you could take dollar bills to a store and have them exchanged for $2, $5, or $10 bills, would you do it? Of course. It would help you get out of debt. In bad times it would put food on your table. The difference here is that instead of getting the exchange immediately you are holding on to a metal (sort of a collateral you hold) that has been used itself for currency and has retained its value in the face of inflation over several thousand years. Hold until it appreciates to higher value - something that is expected to happen dramatically in the not-too-distant future. At that future date it may even command more when used as actual currency than when converted to paper currency at the future market rate. Done. It doesn't supersede or replace anything else we need to do.

To the anti-"glittering"-gold folks: do you have a job or trade that pays you in dollars right now? Why haven't you stopped accepting that as payment? What? Not ready to make that switch yet?

saoirse said...

Satori33
Yes, think you should definitely stay with actual tangible metals...not paper investments. I think gold coins (and silver too) are best, when you think about trading and exchange- it seems as though it's simpler to work with. I also think it's a good idea, when buying coins, to buy the one of the country your in- so if you're in the States I guess that would be the American Eagle.
I just bought some gold Napoleon's today, so it's not too late yet (at least in France). Here we buy them through the bank. Of course, I am certainly no expert and also look for suggestions regarding the purchase of gold and other advice for the post peak survival.

Peter J. Nickitas said...

Midshipman to Political Science Professor:

Professor, I have a theory why so many people in America believe in God.

Professor: What's your theory?

Midshipman: Because the money says that God exists.

True story.

The best book to add to one's learning about the nature of money, in my humble opinion, is Ellen H. Brown's "The Web of Debt" -- and I saw it mentioned first on this blog (thank you, Mike and Jenna).

Peter J. of Minneapolis

koolkarma817 said...

I would like to say how thrilled I am that you are back. I truly missed you for the time you were away.I hope your health is much improved. There are many of us that read you for years anonymously. We owe you a lot. You opened my eyes and I passed on that knowledge to my entire email list.I thank you for allowing me to join the community.
Namaste