Monday, December 08, 2008

Obama Meeting With Gore on Energy

There's only one thing to say about this one... Hmmmmmmmmmmm!

There are some big decisions being made... right now.


A 9-11 CONFESSION WHOOPEE! -- NOW ABOUT THAT BRIDGE IN BROOKLYN


RUBICON readers are going to love this! OMIGOD. Khalid Sheikh Mohhamed wants to confess to 9-11... How convenient, just weeks before Bush/Cheney leave office. Maybe he'll get a pardon!
Wait a minute!... in Rubicon we published very credible stories from several reputable news agencies that KSM had been killed way back five years ago. Wait a minute!... KSM has never ONCE been seen in public since his reported capture.

If we get his "confession" I can almost guarantee that we will never see him in person. If we do, there are enough of us with pictures of the real KSM to tell a switcheroo. You, see, we caught them switching his photographs too. He ain't the chubby guy whose pic is out there. (I must give credit to Michel Chossudovsky for his absolutely brilliant work after 9-11.)

George W. Bush and Richard Cheney you are stupid, lying criminals and this is an insult beyond belief to all of us. It may be too late to get justice for 9-11 with collapse underway (that's what I said in 2004). But damnit there are those of us who will remember what you have done and what an idiotic and transparent move this is.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/08/guantanamo.defendants/index.html

I heard Ahnold's name mentioned on-air today as a possible Energy Secretary... Lawd have moicy!... If that happens our first mission will be to shove his Hydrogen Highway up his non-polluting tailpipe.

Yeah, I am real pissed off.

(Note: I'm proud to have Mark Robinowitz post on the front page of the blog on occasion. He's one of only about six people in the whole world I'd do that for. But Thorium reactors belong back in the comment section now. The science is irrelevant. Collapse will prevent them from being built even if they might be a transitional help. My new book "A Presidential Energy Policy" will explain why. On my list we try first to discuss implementable, off-the-shelf, and existing solutions. Anyone who wants any of my readers to bet their futures on theory with non-existing operating proof outside a laboratory has zero grasp of our collective predicament. There ain't going to be any money to build anything like that. For, to quote Matt Simmons, "the return on investment is uncertain." Please, let us keep focused.)

MCR
***********************************************************************************

Market Intervention Is Top Financial Story Of Our Time

More from crusader John Crudele, who has made it his life's mission to expose the farce which is our 'free market' system. It's a heads-I-win-tails-you-lose freedom that ceases to be free as soon as it veers off the course outlined by TPTB. At that point the Plunge Protection Team swoops in, deus ex machina, to save the hero marketplace from its tragic fatal flaw: a tendency to submit to the laws of nature (what goes up too far must come down commensurately.)

That intervention derives not from the benevolent interest of a parent who wishes to foster independence but from the self-interest of a drug-dealer who wishes to foster the opposite.

The more familiar face of the New York Post:
NY Post Kills Triple Cross Review By Angry Ex-Fed
Another possible candidate for Energy Secretary
Tim Geithner's Background
...including a stint working for Kissinger Associates.

The Automatic Earth

Quotes of the day

Asked why he was undertaking a zero-gravity flight into space, Stephen Hawking said, "I am doing it for many reasons. First of all, I believe that life on Earth is at an ever increasing risk of being wiped out by a disaster such as sudden nuclear war, a genetically engineered virus, or other dangers."

Perhaps he is smart in more ways than we knew.


"The total outstanding notional amount of financial derivatives, according to the Bank for International Settlements, is $684 trillion (as of June 2008) -- over 12 times the world's nominal gross domestic product."
Wall Street Journal

"We still talk in terms of conquest. We still haven’t become mature enough to think of ourselves as only a tiny part of a vast and incredible universe. Man’s attitude toward nature is today critically important simply because we have now acquired a fateful power to alter and destroy nature. But man is a part of nature and his war against nature is inevitably a war against himself ... Now I truly believe that we in this generation must come to terms with nature, and I think we’re challenged as mankind has never been challenged before to prove our maturity and our mastery, not of nature, but of ourselves."
Rachel Carson, April 1963

JO

32 comments:

sambahdi said...

Is this just political jousting for the public's benefit or is this something that could start military actions?


http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1001830/Pakistan-won't-hand-suspects-to-India

Drew said...

I'm sorry if you have mentioned this before, but approximately when do you expect your new book to hit shelves? There is nothing I'm dying to read more right now.

tony p said...

sorry but I can't find Khalid Sheikh Mohhamed in the Rubicon index...

David said...

Now then, as to the insights of Rachel Carson and thorium dude (I assume you're a dude--you certainly write like one)and the whole matter of scratching around for alternatives to the abyss. First of all to you, thorium dude...I can't for the life of me figure out why you're spending your time ranting and pounding your fists on the table on this little blog in the first place. Wouldn't your time be better spent firing off urgent emails to Obama and Putin and Hu Jintao and Sarkozy and Gordon Brown and all the rest of them outlining your superior wisdom in the matter of energy alternatives. I know you haven't yet done so because when you do (if you do) we'll all know the moment by the resounding thump that will result from all these 'leaders' simultaneously slapping their open palms against their foreheads and collectively muttering in their various tongues..."duh...what the fukk (thank you, Jenna) were we thinking with all these energy wars and such... Thorium dude, please come to (insert country name) and lead us into the sunshine."

Or for that matter, thorium dude, why wouldn't you just be showing us the error of our ways by throwing up thorium reactors all over the place and let real life be the proof of the pudding. My guess is that its because you don't have the least capacity to implement your policy, which means its not a policy but an opinion. Thanks for having one, thorium dude, and for repeating it endlessly and at length on this blog. I respectfully submit, however, that its time (for all of us, not just you, td) to be spending more time doing something and less time having opinions about what everyone else should be doing.

Before moving on to doing something, though, I would like to punch a hole or two in td's gratuitous and utterly bullshit counterposition of building thorium reactors to condemning 6 billion people to death. The simple fact is that even if there were already a thorium reactor in every neighborhood, all the remaining fossil energy would continue to be burned up. Because there aren't a half billion electric cars to use that energy, nor is there the money or energy or collective will to build them or electric trains to replace them. And you can't make plastic grocery bags or anhydrous ammonia fertilizer or tractors or anything else out of reactor wastes. There are enough such can'ts to make a very long list.

As the dear and courageous Rachel Carson pointed out nearly HALF A CENTURY ago, we are and have been screwing up the planet at a lightning pace. The fact that 50 years later we stand at the edge of the abyss (some folks are in fact not at the edge but have already been swallowed up) is testimony to the utter laziness of the species as a whole, which refers to physical laziness, of course, but more importantly mental laziness, moral laziness, political laziness, ethical laziness and so on. I believe its fair to say that we are actually witnessing the emergence of an entirely new species--'homo not so sapiens'--which the universe will record as a profoundly clever but fundamentally stupid species. This new species is clearly distinct from the much older species--homo sapiens--that honored nature and lived in harmony with it at the same time it was practicing its various cultural manifestations and spiritual practices and artistic pursuits. The species homo sapiens, like lots of others at the moment and in the very recent past is facing extinction.

There's way more than enough of a map available right now from Mr Ruppert and others to figure out that the shit is hitting the fan at warp speed. Might be time to actually do something more than think about it. A generation or so ago a very wise (my opinion) motivational speaker named John Bradshaw concluded one of his presentations with the following, mas o menos..."I submit that it is a least possible that ALL the birds are flying in the wrong direction". Its not just the hard core addicts. We 'recreational' users are going in the wrong direction as well.

As far as doing something, if you know more about 18th century English literature than you do about thermophilic composting, change that. Grow a tomato plant in a coffee can. Put some potted herbs on the window sill. Raise a couple of rabbits in a cage on the back porch, or a couple of chickens in the back yard. Save some water, store some water, get ahold of high quality sleeping bags. Recycle/freecycle, share resources, don't throw away anything. There are tons and tons of things you can do, but this is already to long. You want to really do something...recycle your shit. Yeah, that stuff. Get ahold of 'The Humanure Handbook' by Joe Jenkins and get over your fecophobia. There's enough human shit literally floating around out there to make anhydrous ammonia unnecessary. And speaking of floating turds, this period could just as well be referred to as 'peak water'. In the unlikely scenario that some band of lunatics doesn't pull the trigger on the whole show, it wouldn't be hard to demonstrate that more people would/will die (and are dying today) from lack of potable water than from lack of oil. As Orlov has admirably indicated, at some point you can still eat 'chicken', but you can't wash it down without water.

And you could equally as well define the period as 'peak climate'. The planet earth is so close to the tipping point of climate that if a bazillion barrels of oil suddenly showed up where lake Michigan is currently located, we're still all dead--not only we not-so-sapiens, but every higher life form on the planet. In fact, I'd like to be so arrogant as to raise my voice on behalf of all the myriad non-human species that are yet clinging to some fragile niche of the planet and say as loudly as I can, "Thank god for peak oil. Thank god (or God, or Allah or Yahweh or the Great Spirit or whoever or whatever it might be that you invoke to please provide you with more oil). Maybe we have a chance after all. Maybe we can still live. Maybe we can still breath our own unique breath into the amazing and divine web of life."

agape wins said...

Please read this Past/future!

http://news.aol.com/the-rewind/article/iconic-image-brought-shame-to-family/268441?icid=100214839x1214486126x1200926489

SherylH said...

One World Government?
From Financial Times....

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7a03e5b6-c541-11dd-b516-000077b07658.html

FTW admin said...

tony

read ftw writer michael kane on ksm:

http://mkane.gnn.tv/blogs/27123/Kahlid_Sheikh_Mohammed_Guilty

SherylH said...

Interesting interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ZrqCWvo88

fusion_is_fundemental said...

David said...
"Now then, as to the insights of Rachel Carson and thorium dude (I assume you're a dude--you certainly write like one)and the whole matter of scratching around for alternatives to the abyss. First of all to you, thorium dude...I can't for the life of me figure out why you're spending your time ranting and pounding your fists on the table on this little blog in the first place."

First of all it is a learning experience to see different points of view on the theory of peak-oil/die-off scenario. Just in the last few days, I discovered the reasons why you all think of this decentralized, renewable model is viable, where these ideas came from, how eroneous the renewable energy proposals are, etc. Some of the views presented in the comments by people here are popular beliefs in todays scientifically-uneducated US culture even though they are not viable as they are being described.

One exception may be the Amish (smart people though there's other problems).

Besides MCR connected pesk-oil to 9/11 in his book CTR (which I haven't finihshed reading yet) so that is why peak-oil, 9/11, renewable and nuclear is relevant to this blog.

David said...
"Wouldn't your time be better spent firing off urgent emails to Obama and Putin and Hu Jintao and Sarkozy and Gordon Brown and all the rest of them outlining your superior wisdom in the matter of energy alternatives. I know you haven't yet done so because when you do (if you do) we'll all know the moment by the resounding thump that will result from all these 'leaders' simultaneously slapping their open palms against their foreheads and collectively muttering in their various tongues..."duh...what the fukk (thank you, Jenna) were we thinking with all these energy wars and such... Thorium dude, please come to (insert country name) and lead us into the sunshine."

You are assuming those tyrants are logical for them to come to that conclusion. I'd say you have alot to learn if you think these wars are actually about energy.


David said...
"Or for that matter, thorium dude, why wouldn't you just be showing us the error of our ways by throwing up thorium reactors all over the place and let real life be the proof of the pudding. My guess is that its because you don't have the least capacity to implement your policy, which means its not a policy but an opinion. Thanks for having one, thorium dude, and for repeating it endlessly and at length on this blog. I respectfully submit, however, that its time (for all of us, not just you, td) to be spending more time doing something and less time having opinions about what everyone else should be doing."

It's already being done not by me but by other people which you will probably be hearing about in the news in the coming year. Besides the evidence presented by MCR and others is not convincing yet (haven't finished reading the book yet either)

David said...
"Before moving on to doing something, though, I would like to punch a hole or two in td's gratuitous and utterly bullshit counterposition of building thorium reactors to condemning 6 billion people to death. The simple fact is that even if there were already a thorium reactor in every neighborhood, all the remaining fossil energy would continue to be burned up. Because there aren't a half billion electric cars to use that energy, nor is there the money or energy or collective will to build them or electric trains to replace them. And you can't make plastic grocery bags or anhydrous ammonia fertilizer or tractors or anything else out of reactor wastes. There are enough such can'ts to make a very long list."

I'd like to see the actual analysis if you have a link. Anecdotal stories don't count.

Basically all of society and it's continued growth and sustainability, including money, is based on energy and always has been. It all boils down to are you willing to use knowledged learned throughout hsitory to solve the worlds problems or not care and just expect or hope for the other billion to die in the die-off? Are you your brother's keeper? Or is it not everyone's problem?

Anne said...

This article's importance is not about agri-biz versus permaculture. It posits a 'perfect storm' of serious food shortages on the way to a town, city, village, near you.

Son of a Farmer: Although the Dakota's are a long way from you, I wonder if you have knowledge of this situation through your networking ?

Time is of the essence folks....canned food and water. For those of you newer to this..."Dare to Prepare" by Holly Deyo is a pretty comprehensive guide to getting ready. It will probably scare the fukk out of you....but then, knowledge often does.

www.silverbearcafe.com/private/12.08/famine.html

Anne said...

Jenna
Just curious..wondered if you got my earlier post...starts..."awww Mike"? Not important, just wondering if it came through.
Anne

DC said...

I was thinking about sending a link to The Automatic Earth myself. Ilargi and Stoneleigh there have foretold current events with a clarity, style and reason that is in rare company on the web. They are really motivated to help people open their eyes. The pictures from Depression times posted each day are often fantastic as well.

Currently the editor is traveling and they are having a series of guest posts, including by people who learned much from their site itself and now have taken the leap of understanding.

kiki said...

Anne, i can't get to the link you posted - could you send it to me at: kiki1247@gmail.com or repost it here ?

sunrnr said...

Here's a link to a very interesting article about Canada's recent turmoil over the Prime Minister.

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2008/12/08/bye-bye-canada-it-wasna-8217-t-nice-know

It reads so much like what's been going on in the US that it's scary. It also mentions the creation of the North American Union which has been denied by Bush and others.

MCR, comments?

namaste

sonofafarmer said...

Special shout-out to Anne. Thanks for the link. Wasn't aware of the situation in the Dakotas. I spent a while with the Lakota Sioux there about seven years back, so it holds a special place in my heart for sure.
Much of the farmland in America is out of whack as far as nutrients. No matter what you read or hear, the NPK commercial fertilizer (petroleum-based) does little for us. The only true proper fertilization is through a healthy crop rotation, using organic minerals i.e. trace minerals, bat guano, seaweed, liquidated cow or chicken manure, etc. The origin of NPK blends were used by the Armed forces to make airplane runways in marshy areas and/or jungles. In mass amounts it kills the earth, hardening it like asphalt. They saw how much larger the trees grew next to the runways after applying this and voila! There you have commercial agriculture on steroids, further toxicating our soils, drinking water, and much more.
I left West Texas in the mid-late 1990s. When I returned in 2005, I could see the wasting away of the soil, changes in the earth. Fencelines covered in sand. In places of West Texas, it is not much different than that of the Middle East, the original cradle of farming. We're destroying the topsoil because we're one-trick ponies. Here, cotton has been planted for 40 years, and about 85-90% of farmers in our area never rotate. This year, many planted maize because cotton crops failed due to drought. This will help. It is harder to get real cotton seed that is not genetically modified (Roundup Ready, BT by Monsanto.) We're one of the few farms that refuse to use it. These guys are clueless. All in the name of the Dollar.

Nihil Matters said...

fusion_is_fundemental says: "I'd say you have alot to learn if you think these wars are actually about energy."

That's just hilarious!! Really…I needed that one today.

I think you’ve got me convinced to go out and pick up a Mr. Fusion. They’re on the aisle right past the Flux Capacitors, right?

One quick question: Is fusion fundamental or fundemental?

Robert Paulsen said...

Paul Thompson did a great examination of the many faces of KSM:

The "Capture" Of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed

Is there more to the capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed than meets the eye?
by Paul Thompson

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0303/S00027.htm

Don Hynes said...

The CIA and its reporter friends: Anatomy of a backlash - Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/12/08/cia/index.html

Working the refs, steering the "story," keeping the public dumbed down and hoping for a "job" on an autoline.

gaelicgirl said...

Tony: From Crossing the Rubicon's index:

Muhammad, Khalid Shaikh, 122, 129, 343, 580

Andy Edwards said...

Today's post really felt like a return to the asskicking stride that FTW hit back in 05-06, etc.

Precise, passionate, informative.

Me grateful.

Hikikomori said...

On Wikipedia about Thorium I found that: In 2007, Norway was debating whether or not to focus on thorium plants, due to the existence of large deposits of thorium ores in the country...

Is anyone here familiar with that debate? Are Norwegians willing to go for thorium plants or not? Why?

Nihil Matters said...

Demand destruction, anyone? Right on track.

World oil demand to fall for first time in decades

Hawkesy said...

"Basically all of society and it's continued growth and sustainability, including money, is based on energy and always has been. It all boils down to are you willing to use knowledge learned throughout history to solve the worlds problems or not care and just expect or hope for the other billion to die in the die-off? Are you your brother's keeper? Or is it not everyone's problem?"

You are correct that energy has been the driving force behind the majority of human development and also human conflict i.e. 2nd world war is often viewed as an energy war and was won by "The Allies" due to better access to oil while Germany were left to use the less efficient coal. Yet you say current wars aren't energy wars? What else are they, unless your suggesting they are the pursuit of the rapture by some fundamentalist christians? Please explain....

We have almost certainly reached the peak point of energy supplies, water, cultivatable land and many other resources.

While I personally doubt it, nuclear power may in the short term be able to solve the energy issue but it does nothing to address the other problems mentioned above and is likely to create a whole host of other problems.

As for assisting others you can only help those who want to be helped. Most people who hear of peak oil and its likely impacts don't want to know as there is still food in the supermarket and cheap consumer goods on the High Street hence don't feel it is effecting them. When that changes maybe they will be more willing to listen. By improving your own knowledge maybe you can help them adapt when the time comes.

Below are a couple of links showing lists of products made from oil. Many are irrelevant consumer goods however some are key to agriculture, health care and transportation. How do you propose we replace these in your solution? (please note I have only used those links for a list of products and am not endorsing anything else the sites may contain).

Out of interest could you at least post what your qualifications and background are that you feel yourself to be such an expert on the nuclear issue.

Also I note you said in your first post that you don't believe in the global climate models. wtf? Where I live the effects of climate change have already been noticeable over the last decade or so? I don't see how you can suggest our climate isn't changing?


http://www.3k88.com/products.htm
http://www.geography-site.co.uk/pages/citizenship/oil_products.html

RanD said...

re David said:

This fukker is me in a different body with an evolved perspective produced from an advanced life experience. My body's 67, his' less than that I'd guess. If older..?WOW...beautiful! Whatever: listen to his shit: it's hotter and cleaner and straighter to the point than mine and Jesus Christ Almighty am I ever pleased to see another body coming on line to give the body I've been living in a break!

If there's anybody reading this that ain't yet gotta a handle on what's coming down then think some more love God stuff to-the-max knowing that everything's reaching warp speed into where we've forever been heading and holy shit am I ever fukkin-A pleased!!!

PS No doubt: Homo sapiens sapiens is on ever-necessarily protracted terminal count-down, but don't worry about sweating it forever: Homo sapiens gnosticus is right at popping into the ever-loving-hands-that-receive and the ever-sweet air that everything good's all wrapped up in.

sunrnr said...

Here's a link to a report about the Commodities Future Trading Commission's latest report on Bank Participation in Futures Markets.

http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=48524

The actual report can be found at
http://www.cftc.gov/dea/bank/deadec08f.htm

The report shows a vast majority of commercial net short positioning of the gold and silver contracts being held by only a couple big FED banks. Hoarding?

Charts are also given for the Cash Markets for gold and silver.

namaste

pleison2 said...

hi everyone.got a question.benn following this blog/site for a year now.I live in Europe,Spain.Looks looks like a collapse in America,what`s coming to Europe?
The same a little later,I guess.

thanks
nacho franch

SherylH said...

The Shadow Gold Price

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/the-shadow-gold-price/

Don Hynes said...

Uh oh..

Sharp drop in Argentine wheat output forecast
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f6f83c70-c627-11dd-a741-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

RanD said...

A note to fusion_is_fundemental (aka "thorium dude"):

Hey man, don't sweat those big number human bodies die-off thingies. In fact it's full-blown impossible to "save" anything from the ever-preeminent forces of reality. Anyone with a valid understanding of reality knows that reality is THAT WHICH IS, and is thereof such realization keenly aware that it's exclusively stupid thinkers-and-doers that produce ultimately only their own preferred just desserts -- you know, like all those once-upon-a-time sweet sounding this'll-make-it-wonderful-for-us-all kinda stuff like the pudding we're all swimming right up to our chins in all around the equator pole to pole today. Hey wow, just how deep into stupid do you really think anti-stupid wants to see stupid take everything before anti-stupid sees the wisdom in no longer being stupid?

Intrinsically ALIVE, SELF-sustaining, SELF-evolving, genuinely miraculous actualities such as our planet, our solar system, our galaxy, our Universe...existence itself...all of which function within the singularly qualitative paradigm of perfection, infinity, and eternity...intrinsically preempt the pseudo-integrity of stupid human minds that would have everyone believe that ever more-and-more-and-more-than-enough ad infinitum (whose ultimate socio-psychological manifestation on behalf of the 'ever-enterprising' human mind is the materialistically rooted numericalized 'profit motive', by the way) is fundamentally superior to good ol' fashioned PLENTY-ENOUGH.

Go ahead, figure it out for yourself. It's your decision, my friend. Only the stupids truly get to die.


Think: UNIVERSAL COMMON GOOD!

fusion_is_fundamental said...

Hikikomori said
"On Wikipedia about Thorium I found that: In 2007, Norway was debating whether or not to focus on thorium plants, due to the existence of large deposits of thorium ores in the country...

Is anyone here familiar with that debate? Are Norwegians willing to go for thorium plants or not? Why?"

Here's a discussion about it:
http://www.energyfromthorium.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=540&sid=6eed0bbf2b81403f49c29c7a8576f412

From a Russian site:
http://sovietologist.blogspot.com/2008/08/russian-article-on-lftr.html
quote: "The country which first develops and mass-produces safe uranium-thorium cycle nuclear reactor installations on the basis of reactors with flowing fluoride salts will move to the leading edge of highly competitive nuclear energy technology with all the advantages resulting from it."


Also other countries working on thorium nuclear reactor programs include India and China.

fusion_is_fundamental said...

If anyone is interested. The reason why many of you think this decentralized energy idea, based on solar, wind, etc., is because of a man named Amory Lovins.

Amory Lovins is not a scientist. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a good idea or anything to contribute to the energy situation but some of his theories are wrong. If this man has anything to do with the future os US energy policy the US is doomed in terms of it's energy future. His ideas were picked up by Hollywood and have become ingrained into the culture of the US.

He became prominent when the Council of Foreign Relations published his paper in Foreign Affairs called "Energy Strategy: The Road Not Taken". You can read a reprint here: http://www.rmi.org/images/PDFs/Energy/E77-01_TheRoadNotTaken.pdf

One of his, which I'm sure many have heard before, is "Where we want only to create temperature differences of tens of degrees, we should meet the need with sources whose potential is tens or hundreds of degrees, not with a flame temperature of thousands or a nuclear temperature of millions—like cutting butter with a chainsaw."

If you don't know what the Council of Foreign Relations is, it's one of the elites most influential think tanks. They have had a huge influence in every administration for the many decades. Virtually all presidential candidates have been CFR members. They own both sides, democrats and republicans. Whatever the CFR wants become US policy. They don't have your best interest in mind. They have been influential in advancing the die-off, not the idea or the theory but the actual die-off. They essentially run the United States. They recently got their candidate Barack Obama elected president and Obama's mentor Zbigniew Brzezinski is basically calling the shots.


Here is some history of who Amory Lovins is:
http://thoriumenergy.blogspot.com/2008/12/green-road-not-taken.html

Here is a talk he gave at the TED conference in 2004:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/amory_lovins_on_winning_the_oil_endgame.html

You can also download a copy of that publication from his website: http://www.oilendgame.com

fusion_is_fundamental said...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7776666.stm

9/11 families condemn tribunals
Artist's sketch of 9/11 suspects in court. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is centre (8 December 2008)

The five accused 9/11 plotters said they want to plead guilty

Thirty-three relatives of people killed in the 9/11 attacks on the US have denounced the Guantanamo war crimes trials as illegitimate and unfair.