MUMBAI AND THE COLLAPSE OF INDUSTRIALIZED CIVILIZATION
by
Michael C. Ruppert
(c) Copyright 2008. All Rights Reserved. Michael C. Ruppert
(Send it. Use it. But leave my name on it and don't change it. -- Especially you, Gore Vidal.)
Thanksgiving, Nov. 27,2008 – 00:30 PST – (After my last post I'd better start putting a time sig on these.)
I do not know how many other corporations are affected; but they will be many, if not most of the Dow 30 and the Fortune 500. And I can tell you that on Friday morning, any customer or client of Citigroup, Symantec or Hewlett-Packard will be unable to get customer assistance over the phone. Warranty service for these corporations will stop. I know that because I have been through that horrible grind with all of them in the last year or so. All of their calls are taken in Mumbai, by Indians. Nothing is working in Mumbai and there can be no certainty when anything will be working. Because the attacks included the premier hotels in the financial district, no multi-national will ever trust the city again. The risk is too great. I can almost bet that the multinationals are all well prepared for attacks on their own facilities, but were totally unprepared for an attack that pulled the city out from under them.
I think many corporations also have data processing and IT centers there are well.
The Achilles tendon of globalization has just been severed.
The Achilles tendon of globalization has just been severed.
Ordinarily, I would go out and start researching to see how bad the exposure is but I already know that it is catastrophic. The markets will do all our research and reporting very quickly for us. Citigroup will be devastated. Its CEO Vikram Pandit, is Indian.
I am certain that this was the intended outcome of the attacks.
Fingers have been pointing to Pakistan and Afghanistan. Depak Chopra has even pointed at Saudi Arabia as a possible financier… with the whole world watching. He is a fine soul, but I wonder if he knows what he's doing. Every head of state in the world with an IQ above 70 is right now living his or her worst nightmare. (You know who that leaves out.) But something in all this smells Chechen or Russian to me in terms of style, organization and capability. No way did this one originate in the States.
I have scanned my memory banks from Munich to Mogadishu; from 9-11 to Tanzania; from Tet to London…. And I keep coming back to Beslan as the closest model. All the CIA hands and terror experts, some of the very good "experts" fail to mention the many similarities this has with Beslan. It's just my gut. Yet no one on CNN or anyplace else I have seen has even mentioned Chechnya. Still, this is truly an entirely new species of terror attack. There is a reason why science does not rush to name and certify new species.
I can draw no conclusions yet, nor should anyone else. Chechnya is bad enough as a possible source, but I pray that these attacks are not Russian. If they are then all I can say is "Duck and cover." This is about as heavy as it gets. There is a strong stew of CIA, Al Qaeda, Russian DFS and Taliban simmering there, (see Rubicon). But, to quote our frequent contributor Victoria, "We are all standing in a pool of gasoline"… and someone just threw the match.
Sometimes understanding is the booby prize; like the guy who stood on the bow of the Titanic screaming, "I'm not getting off this ship until I find out why this happened!"
What scares me most about the Mumbai attacks is the following:
1. They are not over yet.
2. We don't know who did it.
3. At this level of sophistication I would expect the capacity for a "follow-on" in the near future. If the intent of the attack is to put the United States completely out of business it will have to do so quickly.
4. The United States still has enormous military power which might be viewed in some DoD circles now as "Use it or lose it." They too can see the writing on the Imperial wall.
5. The attackers have made no demands.
6. To even publicly breathe that it might be state-sponsored puts us (i.e. all mankind) a hair trigger away from nuclear conflict in any off our theaters tactically and on a MAD basis strategically.
7. The logistics and C3 (Command, Control and Communications) for this looks state-sponsored.
8. This is an absolutely brilliant and potentially fatal blow aimed precisely at the weakest spots we have mapped in "Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil" and at "From The Wilderness".
The fact that there are no convincing suspects as yet also points to a state-sponsor trying to disguise itself as a large terror group. That might explain why there are no demands... Demands identify the suspect.
I am being very careful right now. There are many intriguing threads and it is too early for any of us to rush to judgment. It took me two and half years and many tens of thousands of dollars in research and investigation to conclude and write that Richard Cheney had masterminded and executed 9-11 for the purpose of seizing Iraqi oil. My book has never been challenged or even acknowledged by the U.S. government; a government which spent millions on web sites and press releases to (rightfully) discredit all other 9-11 investigations. My book is in the Harvard Business School Library. It has a thousand footnotes. It has sold a lot of copies.
The analytic construct for Mumbai I have is this:
It is clear that the United States is imploding and that its economic, military and political influence are dying. As with all empires, it was the power of the state; whether economic, cultural, or military, which held the divergent parts together. In many cases enemies were bound next to enemies like two cats tied so tightly in a wet burlap sack that they could not move. But if the sack were to loosen, weaken…and expand? What if six wet cats were in the sack as it started to rend?
Our present, publicly-acknowledged cats include India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. Now throw in Russia and Chechnya… Shake and stir.
Is it sinking in how dangerous this is?
I think I understand how Edward R. Murrow felt in London during the Blitz… What a giant he was… Maybe I know what I want to be when I grow up.
MCR
***********************************************************************************
Jenna Orkin
The Hindustan Times reports that India's security agencies are blaming the attacks on the Al Qaeda linked group, Lashkar-e-Taiba ("the Army of the Good"). While Lashkar was officially condemned in Pakistan in 2002, it reportedly receives clandestine support from members of the Pakistani army and intelligence communities, whether 'rogue' or officially sanctioned.
According to a new book, "The Search for Al Qaeda," by Bruce Riedel, an advisor on South Asia to Obama, Lashkar-e-Taiba was the offspring of the Pakistani Intelligence agency, ISI and Osama Bin Laden in the late 1980's. Its immediate goal was to dislodge Indian rule in Kashmir.
The current goals of the group, as set forth in a pamphlet entitled "Why We Wage Jihad," have evolved to promoting the installation of Islamic rule in all Muslim dominated regions of Asia including not only Kashmir but also South Asia, (in view of Mike's suspicions, note this one) Russia and China. And, again in view of Mike's suspicions, recall the comment sent in by someone yesterday which quoted Gaffar Abdul Amir, an Iraqi tourist from Baghdad on what the Brits would call a "busman's holiday:"
They did not look Indian, they looked foreign. One of them, I thought, had blonde hair. The other had a punkish hairstyle. They were neatly dressed.
Today Pakistan is taking the extraordinary step of sending Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the director general of ISI, to India in an effort to allay concerns that ISI was involved in the attacks.
The last time tensions between India and Pakistan reached this pitch was around this time of year, 2001. The threats to the New York subway system yesterday highlight the ways in which this situation mirrors the aftermath of 9/11, with the two hubs, New York and parts of India, under siege.
Michael, Won't this turn out to be a good thing when all the major companies need to bring their call centers back to USA? I know this is rather simplistic but it will create jobs here.
ReplyDeletenot so easy after a full frontal attack in the middle of economic collapse and possibly signalling all out war
ReplyDeleteI profoundly agree that someone is trying to push the world over the brink here. Its high-noon and two nuclear nations are outside staring each other down in the dust. This is all still breaking and I await your next post.
ReplyDelete"But something in all this smells Chechen or Russian to me in terms of style, organization and capability."
quoted for truth...
Michael, I have learned to always ask, in the face of these events, WHO stands to benefit from these actions? Interesting indeed.......now would be a good time to petition a higher source for guidance! I agree with ProGo, Frightening to say the least. Including the final phrase, quoted for truth...
ReplyDelete5. The attackers have made no demands.
ReplyDelete7. The logistics and C3 (Command, Control and Communications) for this looks state-sponsored.
I have been talking about THOSE EXACT things since it started, I totally agree.
4. The United States still has enormous military power which might be viewed in some DoD circles now as "Use it or lose it." They too can see the writing on the Imperial wall.
Mr. President! We must not ALLOW a call center gap!
Mike:
ReplyDeleteWho funds the Chechens?
Jenna, I find it necessary to continue the means, motive, opportunity, and will analysis beyond Pakistan's ISI. ISI has a history as a CIA subsidiary. That makes, as we have discussed in FTW and the Blog, that Al-Qaeda has CIA pedigree, too.
Now I look back to the 19th Century, when the Great Game began. This is the imperial struggle between England and Russia, or, as Orwell modified the terms, Oceania and Eurasia. The big, coveted prize was India then. The big, coveted prize is still India, as a check to Eurasia (read, Russia) and Eastasia (read, China). The attack of 26 November 2008 marks the latest round in the Great Game.
News reports describe attacks on venues that American, British, and Israeli citizens frequent. That describes an attack against Oceania and a small, but powerful, Eurasian ally.
The attack on the Chabad Center in Mumbai complicates the means, motive, opportunity, and will examination. The Chabad Center is, in effect, an embassy of the worldwide Orthodox Jewish Lubavitch Chassidic organization. Chabad is headquartered in Brooklyn.
Lubavitchers groom and disseminate emissaries around the world, to establish Jewish centers of learning, worship, and hospitality wherever Jews may go. The emissaries are rabbis and their families.
As President of Russia, Vladimir Putin honored separation of worship place from state, but clearly recognized Chabad of Russia as the principal Jewish organization in Russia. He authorized government monies in support of Chabad activities. The monies served several purposes, including establishment of Jewish community centers and refurbishment of synagogues. Pres. Putin even helped to light the big menorah in Red Square with the Chabad emissary in Moscow in 2006.
Rabbi Holzberg and his wife, the Chabad emissaries in Mumbai, died in the Indian army's assault on the Chabad house.
Would Russia orchestrate an attack on American, English, and Israeli venues, including the Chabad house, in view of the existing relationship between the Russian government and Chabad? It is not beyond the realm of comprehension, but is it beyond the realm of reasonable probability?
The Chechens engaged the Russian Army twice in the past fifteen years, and exacted a significant price. Beslan marked a bold Chechen offensive that ended in major bloodshed. Entebbe it wasn't.
So that brings me back to the Chechens. See Rubicon, pp. 136 - 37, with quotes from Michel Chossudovsky:
"One 9/11 researcher drew compelling links between Osama bin Laden and Chechnya... 'This amounts to a confession that bin Laden has been involved with the very terrorists that the US has sponsored, for example in Chechnya, Bosnia, Macedonia, Algeria, and Indonesia, and also with the KLA...' '[quoting Chossudovsky]:With regard to Chechnya, the main rebel leaders Shamil Basayev and Al Khattab were trained and indoctrinated in CIA sponsored camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan... The two main Chechen rebel armies [] estimated at 35,000 strong were supported by Pakistan's ISA, which also played a key role in organizing and training the Chechen rebel army.'"
If Chechen separatists engineered Mumbai, a la Beslan, then ISI has a hand. If ISI has a hand, the US/CIA has a hand.
Here's another thought, going back to the Chabad House examination. Russia has demonstrated cordial relations with Chabad recently. Going back to the Napoleonic era, non-Bolshevik governments of Russia have had cordial relationships with Chabad. The United States Government, on the other hand, has prosecuted the leading producer of kosher meat in the US, a Chabad rabbi named Rubashkin who owns Agriprocessors, Inc. of Postville, IA, for immigration law violations, child labor violations, and health and safety violations. While it is also true that American presidents from both parties have had cordial contacts with Chabad for the last fifty years, the most recent history history is replete with the prosecution of Agriprocessors, Inc. and the Rubashkin family.
I read one estimate that a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan would claim twelve million lives almost immediately. That estimate may have been on FTW. Would it not be a reasonable, great-game play to see US bring India, Pakistan, and the rest of the world to the brink of a conflagration in this interregnum, and then jury-rig a hasty truce before 20 January 2009, a means to let W save face?
My working hypothesis sees a US/CIA governing hand in Mumbai, as an action to create strife and chaos on the Eurasian landmass, to preoccupy Russia and China (Eurasia and Eastasia), to keep Oceania (US/UK) in control, and to set the table for a Bretton Woods II world currency unit arrangement, loosely based on gold, with gold substantially revalued ($2,000 or more an ounce -- Mike Weiss opined on a possible $5,000/oz. gold), to placate creditors in part, to offer some relief to debtors (ironically by great inflation), and to keep the financiers of the United States and its ally, the UK (who wins fights outside its weight class by help from the US), in control.
Oh, here's another question, Mike: Where has David Frasca been lately?
This is no organic attack, that's sure enough. Unless we've just seen the work of the dumbest rebels on the planet.
ReplyDeleteCryptogon thinks this was the US looking to create justifications for an attack on Pakistan. Supporting his case is that no infrastructure was targeted. It was just senseless murder. I think we need deeper analysis of Cui Bono.
Sticking it on Russia makes for a great story, though! :) Holy shit, this is what our world has come to.
When George Galloway comes on the radio in a couple hours I'll report anything interesting.
By the way, what was so sophisticated about these attacks? Seems like hotels had next to no security. Could anyone expand on why they see the hand of Chechnya/Russia?
Mike, I hope you are right that this could be the flashpoint that really sets things in motion. Bring it on, purge the people (citizens and gov't) who care only for themselves at the expense of us who actually give a shit, care about others and try to make a living without negative affects on others. Lets get on with rebuilding a better world. When I see headlines about a Walmart employee being trampled to death in NY this morning because of impatient, selfish and materialistic people not wanting to wait for the doors to open....my heart breaks for humanity and what we have become as a society. As evil or rotten as this may sound, the world CANNOT ever be a better place unless people who engage in this type of behavior are gone. Sorry to sound so cynical, everyone, but what is the alternative? Try to build a decent world AROUND people like this?? Our prison industry clearly shows it ain't possible.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I have witnessed too much from this administration. My first thought is not the Russia or Chechnya. My first thought is always our dear CIA..........When you review what Michael said...especially #3, #4 and #7.and READ this
ReplyDeletequote....
CIA Attacks Bombay? CIA wants India to help in attack on Pakistan
snip...
This looks like a Gladio-style attack, perhaps using brainwashed patsies and double agents.
end quote......
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2008/11/cia-attacks-bombay-cia-wants-india-to.html
What about Israel? Is is possible that they are connected to these attacks? I mean, Jewish center was attacked, Jewish citizens were killed.
ReplyDeleteGood observation regarding the call centers Mike, it didn't cross my mind.
This indeed is a very serious situation seeing that India and Pakistan are well armed and the wait is now to see who gets the "official" blame for these attacks.
V
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletere ruiz' question, "Could anyone expand on why they see the hand of Chechnya/Russia?"
ReplyDeleteprolonged siege of inoffensive targets (unlike the symbolic significance of the wtc, not to mention the pentagon.)
12:05 PM
Israel doesn't do anything with the blessing of the US. I thought of Israel but WHY? They want Iran gone WHY Pakistan?
ReplyDeleteFTW admin.( can u send me an email, not publish it)Was my previous comments not posted for a reason? Is it here?
ReplyDeleteI have said for a year we won't make it to Obama's inauguration. I unfortunately agree. There is an all out economic meltdown and the world events are spiraling out of control. How soon will we see commercial market go into foreclosure? I understand that the shopping malls are the next to fall.
http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081127.wcommercial1127/BNStory/Business/home
http://www.americanretiredseniors.com/senior-finances-and-economy/stores-informed-security-exchange-of-closing-plans/
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletekoolkarma, yours is the first comment up.
ReplyDeletefor the love of god, people, if you want me to send you an email, GIVE ME YOUR ADDRESS. i know you assume it comes thr'u' on blogger but it doesn't; blogger protects your identity which is noble but can also be a pain.
12:21 PM
Mr. Ruppert, greatest respect to you, you've saved me a lot of money and I take all your advice and predictions very seriously as I think 'where next' in my life.
ReplyDeletehowever:
a short run through the comment sections on articles about mumbai attacks all over the net aways comes up for me with two things being mentioned, usualy by someone from india: 2001 attack on indian parliament and the MO of insurgent groups from kashmir. I myself can think of that attack on hotel in saudi arabia, when they practicaly had a picnic inbetween shooting westerners. the style of this attack does not necesarilly mean russia. it's not realy a new tactic, just one that isn't used very often.
On another note:I am becoming worried about you. i know it's not my place, but still, i am.
i know that as the shit is currently hitting the fan, you probably are completely engrosed in it all, but from some of what you write i'm beginning to think you are not getting eough sleep or loosing the healthy level of critical detatchment that we all rely on. all that 'i told you so' and such, i almost hear the maniacal cackle(that bit is supposed to be mildly funny and cut the tension. it probably doesnt work, but it's the best i could come up with)
that boat trip seems to me like a nice idea. jenna can watch the store for a while. just make sure you don't takea laptop, tv or radio. go fishing,collapse is gona happen anyway.
Sorry
ReplyDeletema fish muskillah. (arabic for "no problem")
ReplyDeleteWar is good. It accomplishes 4 things most quickly, efficiently and ruthlessly.
ReplyDelete1. Demand for world oil will crash as population centers are decimated and oil consuming infrastructures destroyed.
2. Inflation will rise causing existing debts to be wiped clean as governments print their way to their survival (or demise).
3. Existing world orders and unsustainable policies are quickly smashed so a new set can take its place postwar.
4. Innovations and inventions in weapons and medicines will be higher which translates to the foundation for a more peaceful but technologically competent and sustainable society in future.
Whoever survives the war can enjoy another golden age not unlike the Renaissance after the Great 13th Century Plague in Europe, with higher wages and living standards. It is going to be a worthwhile but very bumpy ride.
O.k. Walmart employee trampled to death in NY...now two scumbags shoot each other in a Toys-R-Us out in California. Mike, I have a quick question. What the hell are we in for when the oil/economic/agricultural(food supply) triad unwinds? If people are doing things like this now, what are they going to do when there is unemployment, food shortages, power grid failures....etc?? I was hoping for a somewhat "Smooth?" collapse with minimal societal unrest but it's not shaping up that way. What do you say?
ReplyDeleteDear Mike,
ReplyDeleteI stumbled across your website a about a year and a half ago and have benefitted immensely from your tireless research. I, too, have suffered PTSD and recognized it in what you thought was going to be your final post on FTW. I can't tell you how happy I am to see your newfound (re-found?) ability to find your center these days. Prior to this, I have not commented or sent messages to you because I had nothing of substance to add to the subject matter at hand. Now, however, I think there are some things you may have not considered concerning the Mumbai attacks.
I'm sure you are busy plunging into information sources not available to me and I'm anxious to see if your initial suppositions (Russian/Chechnian origin) hold up to emerging data.
My initial gut reaction, however, was different than yours. These are the facts that ran through my head:
-- India is the 2nd most populous country in the world (just behind China) squeezed into a land mass roughly a third of the size of the U.S. (including AK).
-- The world cannot sustain another China-type emerging economy and the associated demands on fossil fuels.
-- Of all emerging economies, India still uses the highest proportion of human labor to energy input to produce its GDP: http://tinyurl.com/6ajr6w
-- India is far more dependent on Western economic "inputs" (i.e. cash in the form of alien investments) than any other emerging economy in the world and is extremely vulnerable right now to an economically destabilizing "event."
-- Of all the industrialized countries in the world, India stands alone in its ability to withstand epic famines while retaining social stability (its caste system allows for vast swaths of the population to be deemed disposable). I'm sure I'm going to get hot arguments on this point, but before you flame me, please research Indian famine history over the past 1,000 years, and the societal responses to it that are now institutionalized.
-- The Indian auto manufacturer Tata Motors has suffered sales declines across its entire product line except one: The Indian People's Car (http://tinyurl.com/6bshho), which starts at around 8,000 USD. As of October, there is still a 6-week waiting list.
-- Tata Motors holds the exclusive license for manufacturing & distribution in India of cars using a production-viable compressed air engine developed by MDI: http://www.mdi.lu/english/entreprises.php
-- Compressed-air engines are compatible with regenerative braking and storing energy pulled from electrical grids at night when energy demand is low and fossil fuels are wasted generating excess capacity.
-- American and European auto companies are in deep trouble.
Hmmmm. If I were King of the World, I could see several birds sitting in a single bush, only a stone's throw away. If I could tank the Indian economy, here is what I would expect as the spoils:
-- Nearly a billion impoverished workers continuing to be available as slave or near-slave labor for the forseeable future (i.e. nearly free "energy")
-- World population reduction in a society that is configured to tolerate it without revolution
-- Opportunity to snap up one of the world's few correctly-configured auto companies for fractions of pennies on the rupee.
-- Ability to immediately produce cars that can be "recharged" from the electric grid via "outsourced" (slave) labor, without the need to secure rare metals (lithium) in politically unstable areas of the world.
-- Prevention of another rising China
-- Opportunity to smear Russia using aped CCC techniques
-- Opportunity to bring call-center (non-union) jobs back home to U.S. at depressed wages to workers newly appreciative of low-wage jobs.
-- Breathtaking reduction in U.S. liquid fuel consumption within the space of a few years, without destroying suburban architecture of our cities.
I can't see what Russia has to gain by Pakistan and India flinging nukes at each other. I can see winners in an epic Indian crash, but Russia/Chechnya don't compute (yet) as being among them. The attacks seem focused to surgically disable the brain stem of the Indian financial system. I see beneficiaries residing primarily in EU and U.S.
nosuchthingsasshould,
ReplyDeleteI too have wanted to make the point. It's not nice to tell anyone to watch their ego, and many of us haven't helped by flooding the comments with ego-boosting messages.
A few "i told you so" moments are all well and good, but what unnerved me was a noticeable increase in that tendency since the days of FTW, combined with clear diversions from what many of us might expect Mike to think (especially regarding Obama, but also in today's eagerness to blame Russia).
As i'm sure you're reading this, Mike, don't read too much into it. Just focus on what you do best.
some of you are focussing on the 'i told you so's' which are puny in comparison to the substance of the article. this is what the left is so notorious for, squabbles over ego.
ReplyDeletespeaking of the substance, go to the index of 'rubicon' as well as the ftw archives re chechnya.
My understanding is that Muslims in India are comprehensively discriminated against by the Hindu majority in every aspect of their lives. So there is a deep well-spring of resentment the organisers tapped into, if the attackers were Indian.
ReplyDeleteAlso the terrorists have indeed made demands, for the release of militants held by India. But who knows what the real motive is.
It does look geopolitical as it was intended to get the attention of foreigners, this is not just another Mumbai bombing.
A couple of years ago I got rid of my Citibank credit card (taking Mike's advice to get rid of all debt). It was a drawn-out process trying to convince the call centre staff in India that I really did want to end my relationship with Citibank.
ReplyDeleteWhen asked why, I told the customer relations person that Citibank laundered drug money. They replied with words to the effect "Oh no, I can assure you that Citibank would not do that". When asked where I got that info I said FromTheWilderness.com! I can only hope that person took it on board.
MCR wrote:
ReplyDeleteFor Ruiz and Nosucthingas...
Quite frankly the intellectual dishonesty on both your parts is very disappointing. If you reread my post again you will see that it is filled with disclaimers saying that I have NOT blamed anyone yet
because there is not enough evidence to do that. So both of you, stop putting words in my mouth. It is you who are unfairly saying that I have already blamed Russia or Chechnya. I could not possibly have qualified that statement more thoroughly. So back off and play fair.
Russia and Chechnya are two opposing entities. I never even thought -- and I sure did not write that I thought -- they were working together.
That's impossible. I am merely scanning the history of terrorism to find groups or intelligence services that have demonstrated the kinds
of capabilities and MOs we have seen in Mumbai. It is a logical and
prudent investigative method.
The pseudo/wannabe experts who post ill-informed comments here are
either scared to the point of losing rational and critical thought or
else they have other agendas. I always welcome healthy, constructive
intellectual criticism when it is founded on the reality of something
I said and the issues that are on the table for discussion. But
neither of you posted your comments in good faith. I'm sorry, but
saying "I love you Mike but you are either mentally unstable or
egotistical" is still an insult in a velvet glove; in this case an
unjustified insult.
I will say this again and it's the last time I will say it. I have
drawn no conclusions as to who perpetrated the attacks. I must have
said it four or five times in my original post. I am following leads
based on available information and building working hypotheses along
the way. That's they way a detective works. Right now I must take into
account that this attack was so well organized, funded and planned
that the attackers had actually penetrated the Mumbai police
department and knew its emergency response plan. In that manner they
knew that the three top officials of the police department would walk
(or run) into a secondary ambush at the start of the operation. They
then decapitated Mumbai's police command and that was CLEARLY a part
of the plan. The Viet Cong were masters of this. It was the killing of
those three -- I'm almost certain -- that allowed the rest of the
attack to succeed and last this long. Sorry folks, but that's
something Chechen rebels know how to do and have done. And it may well
have been done thorugh ELINT or SIGINT, another thing which SUGGESTS
state sponsorship or massive amounts of money far in excess of
anything an indigenous terror group might have. The Chechens aren't
the only ones, but it is something they do know. It is something Al
Qeada knows. They are that well trained, equipped and financed. It is
also clear that the Mumbai terrorists have previous COMBAT experience.
Chechnya is full of Musilm combat veterans who also know how to behave
like Europeans. Another factor to consider is that, based upon my
knowledge, Russia is the only major country that does not have
substantial outsourcing in Mumbai. The alternative question to Who
Benefits? is, Who Loses? I don't see Russia losing much here, whereas
every other industrial power has a major stake there. That alone
proves nothing and I may be wrong. It is a dot in a sea of dots that
have not yet formed a clear image. But that goes to partially
answering the question about Cui bono? Who benefits? I am merely
working with available leads and sharing with you all.
And please, when I put in a post (see Rubicon and FTW) about Chechnya
that means that if you don't know what I mean, you should get off your
butt, go get your copy of Rubicon, look up Chechnya in the index and
read the five or six pages in the book that will answer the question
for you. You can go to FTW and enter "Chechnya" and partially answer
your question as well. I refuse to do this work for you. Participation
in this list, with the high-performance souls who contribute so much
here, assumes a certain skill level. We are all feeding each other. I
refuse to let this list be taken over by people who only wish to eat
and who bring nothing to the table for anyone else. That is an
essential component of sustainability. I will do everything I can to
keep the thoroughbreds running as fast as they can rather than let us
be slowed to a crawl by those who have no business picking up a glove
in a major league baseball game when the can't play Little League. A
basic first lesson is to offer comments on what people actually write
rather than on what you wanted to criticize just to make yourself feel
like you know something.
Play fair or don't play here. I'm sure that the thoroughbreds are
quite capable of wrangling the list and addressing your offensive
comments without me and I encourage them to do so. It lightens the
load for me and Jenna both.
MCR
Maybe I am missing something...however, I took MCR's comments to mean that the type of attack, (holding a neutral facility hostage), and the method, planning, time of assault, and no demands being made...are very similar to the Beslan school shootings in North Ossetia,(reportedly by a group of Chechens) and may or may not be the connection, geopolitically. That connection remains unknown, as yet.
ReplyDeleteUPDATE: Pakistan has decided not to send Pasha, but one of his deputies. It seems the Pakistanis want to conserve some self-respect (reported by GEO TV at 0100 Pakistan time).
ReplyDeleteCORRECTION: "Lashkar-e-Taiba" means "Army of God" not "Good", in Arabic, Persian and Urdu.
The fact that a two year old US "neocon" map for redistributing the region has just again resurfaced to become a hot topic in Pakistan, shows that basic moves are afoot, and this Mumbai spectacle may be part of this. Pakistan - a key US imperialist "tool" in the region, is now near collapse - due to its own internal rot, social chaos, dysfunction and corruption that have reached extreme levels - like those of Sodom and Gomorrah if you will. Pakistan is now a liability, not an ally for its mentors and indeed everyone else. In fact the Taliban uprising there is not the key threat to it; the Taliban are merely like a mould growing upon the rot of state collapse and elitist decadence. In the rural areas under them, they provide a primitive yet viable state and justice system to maintain much needed social order. The US media ignores this. But I know, as I am a Pakistani citizen and belong to the very province where the insurgency is now on - in the thick of it. But I will continue as F.Kamilov here. You should read Pakistan's "The News" @ http://thenews.com.pk ?
f kamilov,
ReplyDeletei'm sure 'taib' or 'taiba' is one of the words for 'good' in arabic. and the word for 'god' is surely 'allah?' but i don't have a clue about farsi or urdu and you're the one in pakistan.
Dear Jenna,
ReplyDelete"Taiab" or "Tayyab" is the Arabic word Muslims use to denote the "oneness" or singularity attribute of God, which Muslims and their religion emphasise very strongly. The word therefore can also be used in the vernacular sense to mean "The One", i.e "Him".
Just as Latin influenced all European languages and became the basis of most of them in some way, Arabic plays the same role in Middle Eastern, Central Asian and those South Asian languages wherever the Arabic religion of Islam spread.
*sigh* I'm gonna say it.
ReplyDeleteEven though I don't know him beyond his work; I think Mike's a self absorbed a-hole, and that his prime directive is to be accurate in his work, and not to "save" anyone. Its obvious to me and I don't believe for a second nobody else see's it. I can even smell it wafting through my DSL line.
Now can we get over all of that? The irony about it is that even with this understanding, he is still going to save a shit load of people A LOT of emotional hardship and yes, even a BUNCH of lives by the work he has done and is doing. And that is why I am still participating in this blog. So when you feel disrespected, speak up, but until then maybe we should just let him do what he does.
How many great people in history have been totally emotionally FUCKED up by the focused dedication to work that they do? Was my namesake a jolly fellow that worked well with others and had no ego problems? Hell no, he even slapped the shit out of some poor young soldier suffering from PTSD in a field hospital while calling him a coward and reaching for his sidearm. The doctors and orderlies quickly objected and pleadingly separated the two.
He was the best at what he did though, and the Germans new it! The ONLY reason we weren't in Berlin a couple short months after Normandy is because Bradley and Ike had him on a short leash.
Lets be sure we don't unwittingly impose a leash on critical thought here. (On both sides!) I REALLY enjoy hearing MCR's preliminary thoughts on things while understanding that the map can change with new discoveries the next day... Such is the art of map making, the resolution gets better and better and better with every new day of exploration.
MCR, the 101st needs you in Bastogne, tally ho.
(P.S. I wrote this before MCR's reply, I just hit "preview" and saw it. It took me a while to author my thoughts on this subject.)
f kamilov
ReplyDeleteshukran. (arabic) shukrya (hindi) thanks. (american)
Of all the analyses I've seen, MCR's certainly makes the most sense. If one of the intended effects is to disrupt American businesses operating in Mumbai, it is already working.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.worklifemonitor.com/the_chaos_monitor/2008/11/work-life-chaos-for-us-companies-operating-in-mumbai.html
One thing about labels. Whatever label the attackers (or those who claim to be the attackers) choose for themselves, it could well be borrowed, or just made up for the occasion. A case in point is "al Qaeda." Someone might claim, for reasons of convenience, to be AQ or affiliated with it. Maybe they think it will give them more leverage or scare people more. Meanwhile, those prosecuting the "war on terror" could apply the label to whomever they want to assault. You want an excuse to intervene militarily somewhere? Then you claim the presence of "al Qaeda militants." So I think we should look beyond such labels because they could sway our judgment and prevent us from seeing what's really going on.
On another note, Jenna Orkin is so right about the ego being the Achilles' Heel of leftist politicians, of every hue and persuasion. During the 1980s as a student leader, I was associated with both the Pakistani and Afghan communist parties (the Pakistani province I live in has an ethnic Afghan majority and its border is under dispute by both countries). I was privy to all the petty intrigue, backbiting and the jostling lobbies that afflicted these groups and undermined their efficacy - and this was taken to extreme lengths.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting interview by Taleb and Mandelbrot:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/the-real-maverick-present-economy-worse-than-depression/
I've gotta hold hands up and say ok, Mike, you didn't even eagerly appear to want to blame anybody.
ReplyDeleteI only read the call-center stuff as a sign that you were eyeing Russia suspiciously. My personal thoughts are that any attempt to damage economic activity would involve more critical infrastructure.
It seems like far more of a psychological attack, meant to shake up authority and manufacture consent for something, rather than cause lasting damage.
Suddenly from out of nowhere, a previously unknown group (Deccan Mujahadeen) carries out a highly effective and well coordinated assault on one of the global economy's nerve centers. The media labels it "India's 9/11" and emphasize the attacks toll on Western and Jewish victims. Before the shooting stops the Indian government and U.S. intelligence services point the finger at Pakistan based Lashkar-e-Taiba.
ReplyDeleteWho's interests were ultimately served by America's 9/11? The US troops in Iraq and soon to be surged into Afghanistan are the answer to that question. Who's interests would be served by a war, even if it included a nuclear exchange, between India and Pakistan? The dire state of the US economy and US imperialism's flagging fortunes in the region should be considered.
Mike,
ReplyDeleteI remember a few articles from 2003-2005 that dealt with the end game for India. Something in the back of my mind tells me this is their 9-11. This attack will force lobbying by US Corporations to invest in a national security force or an FBI style organization within the Indian Government to combat terrorism. This would be right up Blackwater,KBR, and the US Govt's forte. It would leave the US more strongly tied to India versus Pakistan through counter-terrorism efforts. India is the great hedge against keeping pay for US tech jobs in check. I'm sure the corporations that benefit through employing workers at near slave wages would first pay a national Indian counter-terrorism force to protect their "assets" before accepting the reality and bring those jobs back to the US... just what if this attack was designed to resemble Russian influence to throw everyone on a curve?
Obama sent an advance team out to Mumbai to discuss the Iran Pakistan India pipeline deal that Bush has so vehemently opposed.
ReplyDeleteA pretty high powered bunch of guys, staying in guess what motels??
Here is what Kissinger had to say about the affair, which he of course attended:
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=182992
Any guesses what the opposition to the pipeline plan had to say??
Might Biden have predicted this coming??
Can you provide a little compare/contrast with the 2006 train bombings in Mumbai that left 187 dead. While I understand that the political/financial situation in the world has changed dramatically, what in particular now is different in Mumbai such that this puts us to the brink?
ReplyDeleteI thought that even that was pretty horrific but it seemed to have been absorbed without shutting down the call centers or financial functions.
What is going on with the personal attacks on Mike? The man is thorough, accurate, detailed, direct, and blunt and to the point.
ReplyDeleteHis bluntness comes through also when he disagrees with us, but so what? Just get over it.
He may not have the gentle one-on-one communication style of a well-trained social worker when responding to us, but I'll take his accuracy about what's going on in the world over my need for him to have that communication style anytime.
*Ahem*
ReplyDeleteProbably doesn't mean much to anybody but myself, nonetheless I would like to disassociate myself with the idea that all the people who blog here are "leftist". If I had to pick a political party that I most aligned with it would have to be the now dead "Democratic-Republican" party that Thomas Jefferson founded. Today they would be considered very "Right", not "Left". And to put the Fascist politicians of today from BOTH sides, into ANY group ("left" or "right") other than their own is not fair. Even if they do call themselves Republicans or Democrats.
Now that I think of it, what the hell is "left" or "right" anymore? IMHO most politicians have some weird single focus, call it NeoFascism, and the two "parties" are separated by relatively unimportant "topics".
I guess the modern party I most align with would be Libertarian. I want a return to the strict construction of the Constitution.
__________________
Dennis,
"A pretty high powered bunch of guys, staying in guess what motels??"
Where did you get that info? And which days where they there? Circumstantial but definitely an eyebrow raiser.
For what it's worth, Smoking Mirrors' take:
ReplyDeletehttp://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com/
Re.F. Kamilov
ReplyDeleteThe Arabic for the Oneness of God is "Tawheed" not "Tayyib"
Tayyib does meen good, not God or Oneness.
A few words on the recent comments on religion and spirituality - If using the Bible as reference and drawing analogies between current events and "end times", note that this has been done in every time and age since Revelation was written. Importantly, Jesus himself said that no one knows the hour that such events described will take place, not even him. So an honest and accurate analysis can only assert that current events "may be" indicative of the described end time. To assert that it "is" (and others should accept the evidence that it is) is not supported by the very book they claim to interpret so faithfully, literally and/or fundamentally.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the anti-Christ (false prophet, etc.) passages refer to both a spirit of Godlessness and a specific individual who ultimately deceives masses into worshiping him as God. Arguments that Putin or Obama or any other such person is the anti-Christ are purely self-gratifying accusations that have zero basis in any actual knowledge of scripture or tradition.
That being said, clearly the passages are intended to inspire vigilance and care throughout all of life, without a fatalistic belief that God is going to wipe everything clean Tuesday after next.
As for the argument that we have to believe in God or else there is no morality and life is meaningless - I've always felt it to be one of the weaker philosophical considerations compared to many other more compelling arguments (for which there is not the time or space to go into here). Suffice it to say that the argument at its core assumes meaningless existence from the outset and then tries to establish a way to supersede that with actual meaning by asserting an intellectual construct. Descarte and Kant would be a couple of good places to start if there is serious interest in using logic to address the questions of God and existence.
Glad to see it's already been addressed, but I too will chime in that I haven't the time or energy to read and consider comments that are intellectually dishonest or incompetent. The only possible reasons for taking the time to reprimand Mike for "thinking out loud" are all low-minded. After all, that is in fact one of the purposes of this blog (and the reason many people read it), and the post in question was crystal clear. Some people might as well have said "Why are you accusing George Washington of masterminding the Lockerbie bombing?" because it is just as nonsenseical and irrelevant. Also, in my experience, people who needlessly hurl accusations of egotism, holier-than-thou, etc., either don't like what the speaker is saying but come up empty-handed in their thoughts to dispute it, or simply want to be a distraction for whatever reason. Anyone who has been even casually reading of late will see a humility that defers to the collective input of others who deeply care and actively research and have something to contribute. How does that compare to the ego of someone who thinks they are providing value, or should even be tolerated, by making vague unsubstantiated attacks against someone for revealing their thoughts and being themselves on their own frickin' blog?
Attack over.
ReplyDeleteSure, it was organized, but what particularly makes this any different than Mombassa as opposed to Beslan?
It was fundamentally a suicide operation. It used low-end techniques: AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, the standard arms of the forces of unrest from the west coast of Africa to Indonesia. Aside from resembling any number of terror attacks by islamist terrorists, al-Qaeda and its imitators, why is it somehow any more Chechen than Somali, or for that matter, Pakistani? Calling out Chechnya, and presumably Russia, begs proof. Is there any? What exactly about this event makes you think it couldn't just be what it seems, a south Asian terror attack like the other co-ordinated attacks that have taken even more lives in Mumbai two years ago? Occam.
This event will cause upset for awhile. Yes, many western companies will think twice before committing significant resources or moving critical operations to India. But profit will drive that choice, and as long as security doesn't make the location unusable, business there will continue and prosper. New York hasn't folded up since 9/11.
This was tragic, and evil, and clearly indicates that India has a long way to go before it can be said to have an adequate national capacity to interdict islamist and other factional terrorists. But we knew that.
Mike,
ReplyDeleteGlad you're back.
Got some "new ones..." to play
for you.
How's this idea ?
"Follow the money, honey"
Jim Sullins